Editorial: We Need Leaders Who Know When to Shut Up; Burgos Should Step Down

You don’t need a controversy started by an elected Virginia Republican Party leader to know that we have a problem with our political discourse, but it sure does illustrate the point.

Last week, Bearing Drift highlighted comments made by 11th District State Central Committee representative Fredy Burgos.  In both an article from Editor-in-Chief Jim Hoeft and a guest piece written by Nadia Elgendy, a Muslim RPV State Central Committee member and College Republican leader, Bearing Drift made clear that the kinds of comments (in a variety of social media forms) made by Burgos were improper and inappropriate.  In response to our reporting, Mr. Burgos issued an “apology.”

Here’s the text of the actual apology:

burgosapology

As far as apologies go, this one leaves much to be desired.  Ignoring grammar and spelling, it is simply not believable that his statements were “misconstrued.”

Our apologies to Mr. Burgos, but it’s hard to misconstrue statements such as these:

burgos1

burgos2burgos3

These comments represent a fundamentally different problem than the kinds of situations we’ve seen before with Republican leaders and social media.

This wasn’t a situation where bad jokes were spun into antisemitism during electoral silly season, or a case of poor word choice coming from a baby boomer who has never heard of Urban Dictionary.  Those situations, at least, were one-off events.  Mr. Burgos has demonstrated a consistent, repeated pattern of behavior of saying inflammatory, bigoted things on social media.  Only now, having been elected, is his world-view coming under scrutiny.

Unfortunately, these comments reflect a world-view that is becoming all too common in GOP circles.  We were pleased, however, at how quickly this rhetoric was condemned by (most) party leaders.

While we acknowledge that at least Mr. Burgos has acknowledged his error and taken down the offending tweets, the damage has been done — and unfortunately, such damage compounds the damage done by previous party leadership in similar circumstances.

The Washington Post noted our reporting, as well as comments from other Virginia Republican leaders that helped demonstrate to the public that Republicans — not just Democrats and the perpetually offended — find this behavior to be unacceptable.

We are concerned, however, by Virginia Trump Co-Chair Corey Stewart’s comments that “[w]e just can’t police the views of every Republican out there.”  While this is true, what Chairman Stewart doesn’t seem to grasp is that Burgos is not simply a Republican.  He’s an elected party leader.  What he says has an impact on the party as a whole.

We cannot police the views of every Republican, nor should we.  Yet we can and should police the views of our Republican elected leadership, whether in public or party office.

The role of a free press is to help voters hold their leaders accountable, and as the most-read center-right news outlet in Virginia, we here at Bearing Drift have long accepted this obligation.

We can’t do this alone.

We know, just as our readers know, that conservatives and the rest of our center-right coalition are not the bigoted neanderthals the left has long tried to stigmatize us as.

The idea that disagreement is a form of hate speech is a childish, amateurish, and in some circles carefully plotted strategy to silence dissent, thought, and speech.  It is precisely the opposite sort vice and viciousness that only fuels the polarization of the public square and creates instances such as these.

The truth is, conservatives come from all walks of life, economic backgrounds, races and ethnicities, differing sexual orientations and yes — many faiths.  Conservatives by intent and design demand diversity because it makes us that much stronger.  Such diversity of thought, backgrounds, and opinions are reflected in the political party most of us belong to.

So when certain party leaders play down to the expectations of the political left — especially when such ignorance goes unchallenged — not only does this reinforce certain negative stereotypes about conservatives, but it strikes at the very heart of who we are.

This is the kind of image the left paints about us:

"Republican Hate Kills" read the banner at a NY gay pride parade following the Orlando terrorist attack. The killer was a registered Democrat.
“Republican Hate Kills” read the banner at a NY gay pride parade following the Orlando terrorist attack. The killer was a registered Democrat. Photo appears in The Daily Wire.

The reality is far different.

Most Republicans don’t care about background, ethnicity, race, creed, color, sexual orientation, or any of the rest.  What do we care about?  Free markets, free minds, and a free society.

An equal chance for every child, strong families that don’t have the economy rigged against their success, a nation that trusts one another with our basic civil liberties, and a foreign policy that extends “peace through strength” with the very best of our virtues — and where liberty is threatened, it is defended with the business end of an M-4.

Republicans will continue to get what we deserve when we do nothing — even if it’s just a small number who continue to speak with venom and anger towards others.

The demonization of “the other” plays right into the hands of the political left and their enablers, who are quick to hand victim status to anyone a Republican criticizes no matter how valid the criticism.

When, as here, the criticism is ridiculously overbroad and inappropriate, one simply hands the opponents of freedom a weapon to use against our ideas.  When we fail to highlight bad behavior from party leaders, and when the party at large tolerates this behavior?  Such silence equates to tacit acceptance.

That silence is morally unacceptable.  It is unacceptable not only because it damages the party politically, it is unacceptable because it is morally wrong to ignore injustice and do nothing.

An apology — especially one that tries to claim he was misunderstood when what he has said is clear – does not fix the damage.  For the good of the party, Mr. Burgos should step down.

We at Bearing Drift care about the conservative message.  We will continue to do our part to ensure that the fundamental, core messages of optimism and hope that have long characterized the conservative movement — messages that still bind together our entire center-right coalition — are not lost in a sea of 140 character bigotry.

That is going to take discipline and self-control on the part of our leaders, and a willingness to stand up and confront bad behavior on the part of our colleagues when they make mistakes.  Bearing Drift has done so for the last decade, and we will continue to do so not only because it speaks to the best of the conservative tradition, but because it is simply the right thing to do.

  • redvagirl0458

    These are the kinds of comments that should disqualify someone from serving on the SCC. Is there a mechanism in the party plan to remove those who make these kinds of statements? After all, RPV is a private organization, and hateful rhetoric like this has no business in our party.

    • 2/3 of the membership, or in certain instances (as was done in 2014) a mere majority may remove a member.

      • Downstater

        You can’t remove him. He’s Latino. That would be against “diversity”.

        • Warmac9999

          Your irony can’t be missed. Who do you chose.

          • David Southall

            Nadia…. next question…..

          • Warmac9999

            I chose both.

        • Stephen Spiker

          Not surprising you still don’t understand individualism.

          Personal responsibility would mean holding one person to account for their actions and rhetoric. An affront to diversity would be if someone said we should never let Hispanics on the SCC again.

          Similar as to how the Orlando shooting was the responsibility of one person, the shooter. But the intolerant and bigoted viewpoint is to use that one individual to blame everybody similar to him.

    • Stephen Fong

      Election to party office reflects how we want to be seen as Republicans. Blatant hatred and disdain of fellow citizens should not be a part of that.

      • Warmac9999

        Be glad that people are allowed to vent their frustrations. The alternative is violence and war. Watch Europe, you are going to get a very importance lesson in this regard.

        • David Eggleston

          That’s right. What’s wrong with a little collective frustration-venting at scapegoats? Maybe get a snappy uniform made up. You know, so folks will feel like they fit in.

          • David Southall

            browns a good color

          • Warmac9999

            That color has been taken by the leftist protesters and campus thugs.

          • Lee Pillsbury

            Get some red hats with a catchy slogan too.

          • Warmac9999

            And your slogan would be make America miserable again.

          • Warmac9999

            That is already happening in Europe, specifically in Norway but it is spreading.

        • Lee Pillsbury

          And yet you oppose Nadia reading a statement? You aren’t big on logical consistency are you? Or is it only bigots that should be allowed to vent their frustration?

          • Warmac9999

            No I don’t. However the reading of such a statement in a meeting whose purpose is already defined can be quite disruptive and derail the intent of the meeting. The first responsibility of any meeting chairman is to maintain the purpose of the meeting. But a question for you. If she reads such a statement is the meeting to be opened for comment and response? I have seen what was rather innocuous comments turn a meeting into utter chaos.

          • Lee Pillsbury

            You can’t even maintain consistency in one comment thread.

          • Warmac9999

            Have you ever actually run a large meeting with a fixed agenda. Am guessing you haven’t because you would understand my comment if you had.

  • redvagirl0458

    These are the kinds of comments that should disqualify someone from serving on the SCC. Is there a mechanism in the party plan to remove those who make these kinds of statements? After all, RPV is a private organization, and hateful rhetoric like this has no business in our party.

    • 2/3 of the membership, or in certain instances (as was done in 2014) a mere majority may remove a member.

      • Downstater

        You can’t remove him. He’s Latino. That would be against “diversity”.

        • Warmac9999

          Your irony can’t be missed. Who do you chose.

          • David Southall

            Nadia…. next question…..

          • Warmac9999

            I chose both.

        • Stephen Spiker

          Not surprising you still don’t understand individualism.

          Personal responsibility would mean holding one person to account for their actions and rhetoric. An affront to diversity would be if someone said we should never let Hispanics on the SCC again.

          Similar as to how the Orlando shooting was the responsibility of one person, the shooter. But the intolerant and bigoted viewpoint is to use that one individual to blame everybody similar to him.

    • Stephen Fong

      Election to party office reflects how we want to be seen as Republicans. Blatant hatred and disdain of fellow citizens should not be a part of that.

      • Warmac9999

        Be glad that people are allowed to vent their frustrations. The alternative is violence and war. WatchnEurope, you are going to get a very importance lesson in this regard.

        • David Eggleston

          That’s right. What’s wrong with a little collective frustration-venting at scapegoats? Maybe get a snappy uniform made up. You know, so folks will feel like they fit in.

          • David Southall

            browns a good color

          • Warmac9999

            That color has been taken by the leftist protesters and campus thugs.

          • Lee Pillsbury

            Get some red hats with a catchy slogan too.

          • Warmac9999

            And you slogan would be make America miserable again.

          • Warmac9999

            That is already happening in Europe, specifically in Norway but it is spreading.

        • Lee Pillsbury

          And yet you oppose Nadia reading a statement? You aren’t big on logical consistency are you? Or is it only bigots that should be allowed to vent their frustration?

          • Warmac9999

            No I don’t. However the reading of such a statement in a meeting whose purpose is already defined can be quite disruptive and derail the intent of the meeting. The first responsibility of any meeting chairman is to maintain the purpose of the meeting. But a question for you. If she reads such a statement is the meeting to be opened for comment and response? I have seen what was rather innocuous comments turn a meeting into utter chaos.

          • Lee Pillsbury

            You can’t even maintain consistency in one comment thread.

          • Warmac9999

            Have you ever actually run a large meeting with a fixed agenda. Am guessing you haven’t because you would understand my comment if you had.

  • Stephen Spiker

    “Most Republicans don’t care about background, ethnicity, race, creed, color, sexual orientation, or any of the rest. What do we care about? Free markets, free minds, and a free society.”

    Well, until July 21st at any rate.

    • We shall see…

    • Stephen Fong

      Get rid of national conventions. The platform is ignored and useless. And for 64 years, we have not had a brokered convention. Hold a one-day party with a few major speeches and the acceptance speech, if you must.

    • Warmac9999

      But when Mr Burgos exercises his free mind, he is to be punished.

      • Peacemaker

        That man doesn’t have a free mind. He’s a slave to his erroneous perceptions.
        And making hateful statements as an individual asshole is fine. Making those statements when you’re supposed to be serving on the SCC is altogether different. They need to kick him off the SCC.

        • Warmac9999

          What are the erroneous perceptions? His statements reflect the perceptions of a growing and possibly majority of the populace. More and more the words “Islamic Ideology” rather than “religion of peace” are being heard in the news. The attempts to sanitize language through political correctness don’t drive people into silence, it drives them into fury. Best to let the words speak for themselves and judge accordingly. Mr Burgos, and Mr. Draego who spoke before the Charlottesville City Council, are rightfully concerned, frustrated and frightened.

          • David Southall

            so media is white washing things ie creating an erroneous perception….. look there is a dangerous sect inside the otherwise “chill” Muslim religion…..

          • Warmac9999

            There is? How big is that sect and how many Muslims embrace the ideologies of sharia and caliphate?

          • David Southall

            well there’s like 1.5 billion Muslims….. now let’s think about the couple hundred thousand showing aggression…. you tell me!!!

          • Warmac9999

            So you arbitrarily excuse the warfare of millions and tens of millions.

          • David Southall

            no, I refuse to blame an entire people for the few…. not all Germans were evil, just Nazis!

          • Warmac9999

            Not all Germans were NAZIs, but we firebombed Dresden, killing more civilians than the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs did. Estimates for the firebombing of Dresden approach 350,000. The horror was so great that the British Air Marshall in command was condemned for it.

          • David Southall

            hmmmmm….. wonder why we aren’t just fire bombing ISIS….

          • Warmac9999

            Good question. Put someone other than Obama or Hillary in the White House and we might just do what is necessary before they slip a nuke or bio weapon into one of the western worlds top ten cities.

          • David Southall

            I used to think that “making glass” was the only option, but it’s not an option at all…. we’re best suited to surround the strongholds and starve them out….. there’s no need to kill innocent civilians who can’t escape…

          • Warmac9999

            That is the approach that the Public Health Service used to use to quarantine neighborhoods infected by small pox et al. I wish this would work, but who do you think would be the first to get the food and water. These are snakes not to be trusted.

          • redvagirl0458

            Oh stop it. It’s not political correctness to correctly identify your enemy. The enemy is not 1 billion Muslims. The enemy is the 40-50K extremists who actually do want to destroy the West and establish their kooky caliphate. If they want to speak about their concerns about radical Islam, I have no problem with that – I have plenty of concerns as well. I also have a problem with them blanketing all Muslims as radical Islamists, when the problem is less than 1% of those who are Muslim. That is what we’re talking about here, so stop being obtuse.

          • Stephen Spiker

            He’s not obtuse, he’s old and scared.

          • Warmac9999

            You just confirmed your bigotry.

      • Stephen Spiker

        Not by the government, Warmac. Freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom of consequences.

        I know that’s a real bummer for you, because you’d love to spout your intolerant rhetoric everywhere you go and not have to deal with people calling you out for it.

        • Lee Pillsbury

          Warmac wants the “words to speak for themselves and judge accordingly”, the problem is he has a problem with us judging Burgo’s words as wrong. He thinks they they are commendable.

          • And that’s the answer to the question that Scout and others have asked – the reason Burgos got elected is because people like Warmac would vote for him because of this stuff.

          • Stephen Spiker

            Burgos got elected because he worked hard, made the phone calls, and allied with the right people. The coalition that backed up wasn’t the dominant one at the convention, but it was enough to bolster the efforts he made on his own.

          • Warmac9999

            Your first sentence is correct. I have no idea whether your second sentence is correct.

          • Stephen Spiker

            If you don’t know whether the second sentence is correct, then you don’t know if the first one is either.

          • Warmac9999

            I would be less likely to vote for Burgos because of this stuff. It has become an unnecessary distraction. However, I don’t believe in lynching someone who says it because it is politically incorrect to say what he said. A sizable and growing percentage of the American people see Islam as incompatible with western civilization. And, by the way, similar sentiments are obvious throughout Europe.

            You seem to side with Obama. If you won’t name the enemy, and that is not Nadia, then you can’t defeat it. One of the first requirements of warfare is know your enemy.

          • Stephen Spiker

            Warmac, how do you make the distinction between Muslims that are enemies of the U.S. and Muslims who are not?

          • Warmac9999

            Exactly the issue. If you have no problem with Islam then that is your burden to bear. Don’t condemn people who see the problem differently.

            You see Islam as a religion of peace, I see Islam as an ideology that is utterly incompatible with America’s constitutional foundation. I have referred you to Churchill’s analysis of Islam as that reflects my views quite eloquently.

            You want to shut up people who don’t agree with you, and you have suggested punishing Mr. Burgos. Should I suggest that Nadia be punished for trying to insert herself into the state meeting?

            Mr Burgos apologized (probably forced) and even that is not enough for you. That is why I refer to those who seek further punishment as a lynch mob, and there isn’t one member of the lynch mob who can state that they have not sinned in some way or other by making foolish statements. I certainly am not perfect and you certainly aren’t either.

          • Stephen Spiker

            Plenty of people don’t agree with me and I don’t wish to shut them up. I wish people who make offensive, intolerant things comments to not be so offensive and intolerant. Particularly when they’re in a party leadership position.

            But you’re ignoring my point. Why did you go out of your way to say that Nadia is not the enemy? That’s a new development. You’ve previously and at significant length made the case that all Muslims are enemies of the United States. What makes her different? And are there any other Muslims that you’ve now suddenly changed your mind about and why?

            You already know where I stand on this: I’m an individualist. I view people by their actions because I believe in personal responsibility.

          • Warmac9999

            Actually neither you nor I know Nadia’s motivations. Both of us are assuming she is a patriotic American. That does not excuse Islam for what it is. Again, do you consider yourself to be an American?

          • Stephen Spiker

            What do you mean “again”? This is the first time you’ve posed such a silly question to me. Of course I’m an American. I’m a lot things, definitionally speaking.

            While we all appreciate that you’ve managed to find the intellectual capacity to “assume” Nadia isn’t a sleeper terrorist, how about you answer the question: Are there other Muslims who you do not consider to be enemies of the United States, and why have you changed your position from before?

          • Warmac9999

            You love to misread and misquote.

          • Stephen Spiker

            Let’s assume you actually believe Nadia isn’t an enemy of the U.S. How do you make the distinction between Muslims that are and Muslims that are not?

            I’ve asked this a number of different ways and you cannot seem to conjure an answer to this.

          • Lee Pillsbury

            I would propose that Nadia has shown herself to be a patriotic American by her actions and that you have shown thru your words that you are not.

          • redvagirl0458

            There you go again with the blanketing and generalization of an entire religion for the actions of, relatively speaking a few – less than 1% of over a billion is, relatively speaking, a few.

            Islam is a religion and faith practiced by many different people. Look up the Five Pillars. Things like charity, praying, and making pilgrimages is what you’ll find there, not intentionally slaughtering people who aren’t Muslim.

            And Stephen Spiker is clearly more of an American than you are, as he understands there’s no place for bigotry based on ignorance and hate in this party or this nation. That seems to be a concept you’re still trying to grasp.

          • Warmac9999

            A few million people isn’t a few, it is a city. At the current rate of massacre by Islamic terrorists, tens if not hundreds of millions will die.

            If you wish to ignore the entirety of islam’s history, so be it. You cannot defend sharia, the caliphate, or the mistreatment of infidels who are anyone who isn’t Muslim (and even some who are). The intent of Islam is world conquest by any and all means. Islam is incompatible with western civilization and American constitutional principles.

            Political correctness is bigotry and its practices are hateful. Mr Burgos hasn’t said anything that half the American people aren’t thinking because they see the horror of Islamic motivated terrorism and Obama refusing to condemn Islamic terrorism. I have read the FBI report on the Blind Shiek and one of the stunning results was that the Blind Shieks ideas matched quite nicely with the ideas of other Muslims.

          • Stephen Spiker

            You think half of Americans think Islam is a satanist death cult that’s comperable to the Nazis? You think half of Americans think Muslims shouldn’t be welcome in the United States like you do?

            You have a very dim and pessimistic view of Americans. Fortunately, you’re also wrong about that. You’re not part of a “silent majority”. You’re not ringing the bells of truth for a people under siege. You’re just another old racist who can’t understand people different from you so you lash out irrationally, with nothing to leave behind but a legacy of hating others for who they are.

            The fact that you continually refuse to answer my simple, basic questions confirms how lost and scared and pitiable you are.

          • Warmac9999

            Reuters poll on 18 June. 47+% think Syrian refugees should not be admitted while 45+% think they should be. The rest don’t know or have no opinion.

          • Stephen Spiker

            Right, refugees never poll well, particularly when politicians demagogue against them and call them “snakes”.

            And why won’t you answer my questions?

          • Warmac9999

            Per Huffington Post poll in 2015, 55% of Americans have a negative view of Islam.

          • Stephen Spiker

            You think that’s the same thing as calling them Nazis?

            And why won’t you answer my questions?

          • There is a difference between political correctness and being a bigot.

            At the same time, I’d don’t know why you guys constantly stand up and cheer every time somebody acts like an asshole. It makes no sense to me.

          • Warmac9999

            Political correctness is bigotry. I don’t cheer Burgos at all. He created an unnecessary distraction.

          • Stephen Spiker

            Warmac, leaving aside the topic of political correctness and what Burgos said:

            Do you believe racial or religious bigotry is a concept that exists?

          • Warmac9999

            You have this habit of never answering questions. I asked you, with your absolutist position as an individualist, whether you considered yourself to be an American. Your silence is quite telling.

          • Stephen Spiker

            My response to that is below. Right here, I’m asking: Do you believe racial or religious bigotry is a concept that exists?

          • Warmac9999

            Sure. But let me ask you a question. Is Islam committing religious bigotry when it commits genocide against Christians. Is BLM committing racial bigotry when it calls all white folk privileged or supremacists?

          • Stephen Spiker

            Since you’ve acknowledged that bigotry exists, in your opinion, what would bigotry against a Muslim person look like?

          • But do you disagree with what he said? That’s the issue.

            There are some who don’t have a problem with what he said, they think he just shouldn’t have said it.

            There are some who have a problem with what he said and also think he shouldn’t have said it.

            Which are you?

          • Warmac9999

            Actually that is not the fundamental issue. You either see Islam as a religion or Islam as an ideology. That is the basis for the disagreement. Since I see Islam as an ideology thanks to its insistance on a caliphate, sharia law, and the suppression of infidels, I see it as an ideology with a religious component that underpins the rest of the ideology. In addition, I have a major problem with political correctness being used to shut down speech that is disagreeable. This attack on Burgos is the equivalent of a high tech lynching – to quote Clarence Thomas.

            Thus, I tend toward the former to answer your question. I also think Nadia has a perfect right to be offended if she so choses. However, just because she has a right to be offended doesn’t automatically mean she has a right to punish.

          • So you agree with him that Satan created Islam, you just don’t think he should have said anything. Got it.

          • Warmac9999

            Are you suggesting that thought crimes should be punished? Things have become rather emotional because of a spate of homicidal Islamic terrorist attacks, and I certainly understand the sentiment. As far as Satan is concerned, I just don’t know – I would probably have used the words evil ideology as that is more appropriate to describe what is happening with Islam around the world. Satan has created evil, and the greatest evil certainly resides with Islam.

          • I’m suggested that bigoted people like Fredy Burgod have no place in the leadership of the Republican Party and he should step down. Not that hard to figure out.

          • Warmac9999

            Would you suggest that Nadia step down because she is too thin skinned?

          • Only if Trump steps down for being too thin skinned.

          • Warmac9999

            “Keep America socialist”. God forbid we would want America to be great and lead the world. Better we become some third world rat hole so that everything is fair. (We know that generals in war want to make sure that their forces aren’t any better than the enemies forces just to,insure a fair fight. Ah, the just war concept in its simplest terms.)

          • We are already great and we already lead the world.

          • Warmac9999

            Complacency and arrogance are not friends of any person or nation. If you always work as if you are just a bit behind, you achieve more than you think is possible.

          • If they were saying “Make America Greater” that’s one thing. That’s not what’s being said.

          • Warmac9999

            His words represent what a lot of American citizens believe. You wish to silence those beliefs but you only make them stronger. It isn’t that you don’t understand it is that you won’t understand because such words make you uncomfortable.

            I don’t find his comments commendable. But I also don’t find them inaccurate. Islam is totalitarian, has a very long history of violence, enslavement and oppression, and contains legal and governmental premises which stand in opposition to the Constitution. It is the only ideology operating today which still uses oppressive and violent measures to achieve its ideological ends.

          • Stephen Spiker

            No one here is made uncomfortable by his and your words. Sadly, we’re long used to this type of rhetoric. We’re fighting against rhetoric we view as both factually incorrect and shameful. If the people here wanted you silenced, you’d be silenced.

          • Warmac9999

            Reality isn’t rhetoric.

        • Warmac9999

          Lynch mob.

          • Stephen Spiker

            Nope, just society shaming intolerance.

  • Stephen Spiker

    “Most Republicans don’t care about background, ethnicity, race, creed, color, sexual orientation, or any of the rest. What do we care about? Free markets, free minds, and a free society.”

    Well, until July 21st at any rate.

    • We shall see…

    • Stephen Fong

      Get rid of national conventions. The platform is ignored and useless. And for 64 years, we have not had a brokered convention. Hold a one-day party with a few major speeches and the acceptance speech, if you must.

    • Warmac9999

      But when Mr Burgos exercises his free mind, he is to be punished.

      • Peacemaker

        That man doesn’t have a free mind. He’s a slave to his erroneous perceptions.
        And making hateful statements as an individual asshole is fine. Making those statements when you’re supposed to be serving on the SCC is altogether different. They need to kick him off the SCC.

        • Warmac9999

          What are the erroneous perceptions? His statements reflect the perceptions of a growing and possibly majority of the populace. More and more the words “Islamic Ideology” rather than “religion of peace” are being heard in the news. The attempts to sanitize language through political correctness don’t drive people into silence, it drives them into fury. Best to let the words speak for themselves and judge accordingly. Mr Burgos, and Mr. Draego who spoke before the Charlottesville City Council, are rightfully concerned, frustrated and frightened.

          • David Southall

            so media is white washing things ie creating an erroneous perception….. look there is a dangerous sect inside the otherwise “chill” Muslim religion…..

          • Warmac9999

            There is? How big is that sect and how many Muslims embrace the ideologies of sharia and caliphate?

          • David Southall

            well there’s like 1.5 billion Muslims….. now let’s think about the couple hundred thousand showing aggression…. you tell me!!!

          • Warmac9999

            So you arbitrarily excuse the warfare of millions and tens of millions.

          • David Southall

            no, I refuse to blame an entire people for the few…. not all Germans were evil, just Nazis!

          • Warmac9999

            Not all Germans were NAZIs, but we firebombed Dresden, killing more civilians than the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs did. Estimates for the firebombing of Dresden approach 350,000. The horror was so great that the British Air Marshall in command was condemned for it.

          • David Southall

            hmmmmm….. wonder why we aren’t just fire bombing ISIS….

          • Warmac9999

            Good question. Put someone other than Obama or Hillary in the White House and we might just do what is necessary before they slip a nuke or bio weapon into one of the western worlds top ten cities.

          • David Southall

            I used to think that “making glass” was the only option, but it’s not an option at all…. we’re best suited to surround the strongholds and starve them out….. there’s no need to kill innocent civilians who can’t escape…

          • Warmac9999

            That is the approach that the Public Health Service used to use to quarantine neighborhoods infected by small pox et al. I wish this would work, but who do you think would be the first to get the food and water. These are snakes not to be trusted.

          • redvagirl0458

            Oh stop it. It’s not political correctness to correctly identify your enemy. The enemy is not 1 billion Muslims. The enemy is the 40-50K extremists who actually do want to destroy the West and establish their kooky caliphate. If they want to speak about their concerns about radical Islam, I have no problem with that – I have plenty of concerns as well. I also have a problem with them blanketing all Muslims as radical Islamists, when the problem is less than 1% of those who are Muslim. That is what we’re talking about here, so stop being obtuse.

          • Stephen Spiker

            He’s not obtuse, he’s old and scared.

      • Stephen Spiker

        Not by the government, Warmac. Freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom of consequences.

        I know that’s a real bummer for you, because you’d love to spout your intolerant rhetoric everywhere you go and not have to deal with people calling you out for it.

        • Lee Pillsbury

          Warmac wants the “words to speak for themselves and judge accordingly”, the problem is he has a problem with us judging Burgo’s words as wrong. He thinks they they are commendable.

          • And that’s the answer to the question that Scout and others have asked – the reason Burgos got elected is because people like Warmac would vote for him because of this stuff.

          • Stephen Spiker

            Burgos got elected because he worked hard, made the phone calls, and allied with the right people. The coalition that backed up wasn’t the dominant one at the convention, but it was enough to bolster the efforts he made on his own.

          • Warmac9999

            Your first sentence is correct. I have no idea whether your second sentence is correct.

          • Stephen Spiker

            If you don’t know whether the second sentence is correct, then you don’t know if the first one is either.

          • Warmac9999

            I would be less likely to vote for Burgos because of this stuff. It has become an unnecessary distraction. However, I don’t believe in lynching someone who says it because it is politically incorrect to say what he said. A sizable and growing percentage of the American people see Islam as incompatible with western civilization. And, by the way, similar sentiments are obvious throughout Europe.

            You seem to side with Obama. If you won’t name the enemy, and that is not Nadia, then you can’t defeat it. One of the first requirements of warfare is know your enemy.

          • Stephen Spiker

            Warmac, how do you make the distinction between Muslims that are enemies of the U.S. and Muslims who are not?

          • Warmac9999

            Exactly the issue. If you have no problem with Islam then that is your burden to bear. Don’t condemn people who see the problem differently.

            You see Islam as a religion of peace, I see Islam as an ideology that is utterly incompatible with America’s constitutional foundation. I have referred you to Churchill’s analysis of Islam as that reflects my views quite eloquently.

            You want to shut up people who don’t agree with you, and you have suggested punishing Mr. Burgos. Should I suggest that Nadia be punished for trying to insert herself into the state meeting?

            Mr Burgos apologized (probably forced) and even that is not enough for you. That is why I refer to those who seek further punishment as a lynch mob, and there isn’t one member of the lynch mob who can state that they have not sinned in some way or other by making foolish statements. I certainly am not perfect and you certainly aren’t either.

          • Stephen Spiker

            Plenty of people don’t agree with me and I don’t wish to shut them up. I wish people who make offensive, intolerant things comments to not be so offensive and intolerant. Particularly when they’re in a party leadership position.

            But you’re ignoring my point. Why did you go out of your way to say that Nadia is not the enemy? That’s a new development. You’ve previously and at significant length made the case that all Muslims are enemies of the United States. What makes her different? And are there any other Muslims that you’ve now suddenly changed your mind about and why?

            You already know where I stand on this: I’m an individualist. I view people by their actions because I believe in personal responsibility.

          • Warmac9999

            Actually neither you nor I know Nadia’s motivations. Both of us are assuming she is a patriotic American. That does not excuse Islam for what it is. Again, do you consider yourself to be an American?

          • Stephen Spiker

            What do you mean “again”? This is the first time you’ve posed such a silly question to me. Of course I’m an American. I’m a lot things, definitionally speaking.

            While we all appreciate that you’ve managed to find the intellectual capacity to “assume” Nadia isn’t a sleeper terrorist, how about you answer the question: Are there other Muslims who you do not consider to be enemies of the United States, and why have you changed your position from before?

          • Warmac9999

            You love to misread and misquote.

          • Stephen Spiker

            Let’s assume you actually believe Nadia isn’t an enemy of the U.S. How do you make the distinction between Muslims that are and Muslims that are not?

            I’ve asked this a number of different ways and you cannot seem to conjure an answer to this.

          • Lee Pillsbury

            I would propose that Nadia has shown herself to be a patriotic American by her actions and that you have shown thru your words that you are not.

          • There is a difference between political correctness and being a bigot.

            At the same time, I’d don’t know why you guys constantly stand up and cheer every time somebody acts like an asshole. It makes no sense to me.

          • Warmac9999

            Political correctness is bigotry. I don’t cheer Burgos at all. He created an unnecessary distraction.

          • Stephen Spiker

            Warmac, leaving aside the topic of political correctness and what Burgos said:

            Do you believe racial or religious bigotry is a concept that exists?

          • Warmac9999

            You have this habit of never answering questions. I asked you, with your absolutist position as an individualist, whether you considered yourself to be an American. Your silence is quite telling.

          • Stephen Spiker

            I haven’t had a chance to respond to that question yet. See my response below. In the meantime, please tell me: Do you believe racial or religious bigotry is a concept that exists?

          • Warmac9999

            Sure. But let me ask you a question. Is Islam committing religious bigotry when it commits genocide against Christians. Is BLM committing racial bigotry when it calls all white folk privileged or supremacists?

          • Stephen Spiker

            Since you’ve acknowledged that bigotry exists, in your opinion, what would bigotry against a Muslim person look like?

          • But do you disagree with what he said? That’s the issue.

            There are some who don’t have a problem with what he said, they think he just shouldn’t have said it.

            There are some who have a problem with what he said and also think he shouldn’t have said it.

            Which are you?

          • Warmac9999

            Actually that is not the fundamental issue. You either see Islam as a religion or Islam as an ideology. That is the basis for the disagreement. Since I see Islam as an ideology thanks to its insistance on a caliphate, sharia law, and the suppression of infidels, I see it as an ideology with a religious component that underpins the rest of the ideology. In addition, I have a major problem with political correctness being used to shut down speech that is disagreeable. This attack on Burgos is the equivalent of a high tech lynching – to quote Clarence Thomas.

            Thus, I tend toward the former to answer your question. I also think Nadia has a perfect right to be offended if she so choses. However, just because she has a right to be offended doesn’t automatically mean she has a right to punish.

          • Warmac9999

            His words represent what a lot of American citizens believe. You wish to silence those beliefs but you only make them stronger. It isn’t that you don’t understand it is that you won’t understand because such words make you uncomfortable.

            I don’t find his comments commendable. But I also don’t find them inaccurate. Islam is totalitarian, has a very long history of violence, enslavement and oppression, and contains legal and governmental premises which stand in opposition to the Constitution. It is the only ideology operating today which still uses oppressive and violent measures to achieve its ideological ends.

          • Stephen Spiker

            No one here is made uncomfortable by his and your words. Sadly, we’re long used to this type of rhetoric. We’re fighting against rhetoric we view as both factually incorrect and shameful. If the people here wanted you silenced, you’d be silenced.

        • Warmac9999

          Lynch mob.

          • Stephen Spiker

            Nope, just society shaming intolerance.

  • Lee Pillsbury

    Fredy’s apology shows that he doesn’t get it. We should value him for the diversity he brings to the party? No, bigotry is not diversity.

    • Stephen Fong

      Can anyone explain why he was elected? It wasn’t because they wanted a Latino American, was it?

      • I don’t think so. Fredy represents the Tea Party wing of the party, and thus has a built in constituency of people who think like he does and don’t have a problem spending a beautiful spring day locked in a high school gymnasium. I know it was a beautiful day, because I was coaching little league down the street from where they held the convention.

        • Reinhardt Reganbacker lll

          Correct my if I am wrong, and this is just my observation.

          I believe you have stated many times in the past that BD is a blog focused on Virginia politics, Correct?

          Yet, Shawn just wrote a popular thread on America’s immigration problem. Correct?

          Now, you appear to be BD’s most popular writer. You are also a lawyer who works in DC. Correct?

          Why is your word processor silent when Slick Willy was holed up in the AG’s jet in Arizona?

          What the scoop?

          • Because I don’t know anything about it and I don’t particularly think it’s that big a deal. Sure, a couple folks will make some political hay about it, but I don’t find it particularly interesting.

            Here’s the deal – we write about issues that our audience wants to read and we cover things that we cover because we have the information and nobody else covers them. When it comes to national issues, we’ve created a niche on immigration. When it comes to Virginia, we talk about anything.

            Nobody cares what we have to say about Clinton and Lynch talking on an airplane. They do care what we think about this stuff.

          • Stephen Spiker

            You act as if they have a mandate to cover that, or anything else for that matter. They have a mandate to cover the things they find interesting. As long as people keep viewing and commenting, they’ll keep that up.

            Maybe their readership would increase if they tackled stories like the one you suggest; maybe not. Perhaps you could start your own blog, write about it, and we’ll see how many readers you get?

          • Reinhardt Reganbacker lll

            Let me translate for you again. To those who want to see Hillary in the WH, Bill, just happening to be in the same state, at the exact same time, at the same airport, on the same tarmac, as AG Lynch , is easily explained as just a coinsidence. Not news worthy.

            However, to those who are not drunk on establishment ideology, this meeting is a really big deal. In my opinion the AG should remove herself from the case. If Hillary is indicted, will BD staff then support Bernie Sanders?

          • Don’t be a moron. I found it interesting. And what I find even more interesting is today’s Detroit News editorial on Benghazi. Specifically this quote: “More troubling than the decision making is the deceit.”

            http://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/editorials/2016/07/01/editorial-benghazi-mishandled-every-angle/86586064/

            But our deal is to write about Virginia politics first. I made that choice more than a decade ago and I’m doing my best to stick to it.

            We do our best, in the context of working for a living, with family, and other obligations, to cover news that matters and can be related, specifically, to Virginia politics.

            End of discussion.

          • Warmac9999

            This was not a coincidence. There are a number of news stories about what actually occurred.

  • Lee Pillsbury

    Fredy’s apology shows that he doesn’t get it. We should value him for the diversity he brings to the party? No, bigotry is not diversity.

    • Stephen Fong

      Can anyone explain why he was elected? It wasn’t because they wanted a Latino American, was it?

      • I don’t think so. Fredy represents the Tea Party wing of the party, and thus has a built in constituency of people who think like he does and don’t have a problem spending a beautiful spring day locked in a high school gymnasium. I know it was a beautiful day, because I was coaching little league down the street from where they held the convention.

        • Reinhardt Reganbacker lll

          Correct my if I am wrong, and this is just my observation.

          I believe you have stated many times in the past that BD is a blog focused on Virginia politics, Correct?

          Yet, Shawn just wrote a popular thread on America’s immigration problem. Correct?

          Now, you appear to be BD’s most popular writer. You are also a lawyer who works in DC. Correct?

          Why is your word processor silent when Slick Willy was holed up in the AG’s jet in Arizona?

          What the scoop?

          • Because I don’t know anything about it and I don’t particularly think it’s that big a deal. Sure, a couple folks will make some political hay about it, but I don’t find it particularly interesting.

            Here’s the deal – we write about issues that our audience wants to read and we cover things that we cover because we have the information and nobody else covers them. When it comes to national issues, we’ve created a niche on immigration. When it comes to Virginia, we talk about anything.

            Nobody cares what we have to say about Clinton and Lynch talking on an airplane. They do care what we think about this stuff.

          • Stephen Spiker

            You act as if they have a mandate to cover that, or anything else for that matter. They have a mandate to cover the things they find interesting. As long as people keep viewing and commenting, they’ll keep that up.

            Maybe their readership would increase if they tackled stories like the one you suggest; maybe not. Perhaps you could start your own blog, write about it, and we’ll see how many readers you get?

          • Reinhardt Reganbacker lll

            Let me translate for you again. To those who want to see Hillary in the WH, Bill, just happening to be in the same state, at the exact same time, at the same airport, on the same tarmac, as AG Lynch , is easily explained as just a coinsidence. Not news worthy.

            However, to those who are not drunk on establishment ideology, this meeting is a really big deal. In my opinion the AG should remove herself from the case. If Hillary is indicted, will BD staff then support Bernie Sanders?

          • Don’t be a moron. I found it interesting. And what I find even more interesting is today’s Detroit News editorial on Benghazi. Specifically this quote: “More troubling than the decision making is the deceit.”

            http://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/editorials/2016/07/01/editorial-benghazi-mishandled-every-angle/86586064/

            But our deal is to write about Virginia politics first. I made that choice more than a decade ago and I’m doing my best to stick to it.

            We do our best, in the context of working for a living, with family, and other obligations, to cover news that matters and can be related, specifically, to Virginia politics.

            End of discussion.

          • Warmac9999

            Your fifth paragraph is right on target. This meeting is just too cute to be dismissed as a coincidence.

  • David Southall

    I have thought for a while now that the alt-right anti-establishment was merely a group of nativist with a disdain for anyone who wasn’t…….. now well I don’t know, I think it’s much worse than I had previously thought, He mentioned he had been elected due to his passion etc etc….. if this is true and what we have seen from other recent electors we should have a great concern for the future of our party….

    • I am much more alarmed about the rise of the alt-right than I was six months ago. This is not merely a populist or nativist uprising.

      Something else is moving behind the curtain.

      • Peacemaker

        Was it you or Brian who told me the length of time, on average, any political system has survived in tact?

        • Probably Brian, but the rule of thumb? 200 years… and for republics, far less.

          • Peacemaker

            Well, there is your something else…possibly. Scary thought.

          • Well, 200 years without major changes. We had a major change 150 years ago so we’ve got some time left.

          • Peacemaker

            IDK…sometimes it seems like the nuts are running the asylum. The Doctors need to make a comeback, real soon. Xanax anyone?

          • Warmac9999

            Xanax doesn’t clarify reality, it blurs it.

          • Peacemaker

            EXACTLY

          • We’re getting there.

          • Reinhardt Reganbacker lll

            Who was the establishment in the Revolutionary War? What happened there, and why? Populists can only be pushed so far. History tells us what happens then.

          • David Southall

            YES SEE Civil War!!

      • David Southall

        that’s what I’m referring to Shaun, until now the next move was pretty easy to read, they were playing checkers…. now they’ve upped their game and I have no clue what the end game is.

        • Warmac9999

          Try Sun Tsu.

          • David Southall

            I’ve read it and listened to the audio book…. these guys aren’t following the theories or ideas….. more like a rogue nation in possession of a nuke

          • Warmac9999

            Read it again and this time put it in the context of 9/11 and all the recent bombings and attacks. To me, this is reminiscent of Vietnam and, in particular, the Tet Offensive.

          • David Southall

            ???? we’re referring to the next move from the alt-right, what are you talking about?

      • David Eggleston

        With the rise of anti-Semitism on American campuses, the rise of the alt-Right, and alt-Left for that matter, shouldn’t be too much of a surprise.

        • Warmac9999

          There ain’t no Alt-Right on campuses.

          • David Eggleston

            I was pointing to the increasing social respectability of racism over the last ten years.

          • Warmac9999

            I would agree. The attacks by the SJW, BLM and la Raza are constant to the point that any white person is declared guilty of white supremacy or privilege.

          • David Southall

            really…. I’ve never been declared guilty….. is it because of my tan….. come on dude really??

          • Warmac9999

            You could be like Rachel Duzzy-gal who is born white but identifies as black. Or, depending on the tan, you could be an antelope.

          • David Southall

            my last name is Southall…. as in Southall, England….. my skin tone comes from my blue collar and the whatever % of native American I am….

          • Warmac9999

            Do you know what is happening to Southall? Look up the future Islamic Capitol of England.

          • David Southall

            Ok

          • And by “future”, he means the future in one of his alternate realities.

            Today, I learned that Disqus has now added a “Block User” option. Thank you, whatever heavenly being that you believe in, if you believe in one.

          • Warmac9999

            So you can stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and scream lalalala.

          • Sammy

            Bruce, as much as I feel your pain, I think all of us have a moral responsibility to make sure he knows that his views will never find purchase with a majority of Americans.

            I go to FiveThirtyEight every day, check the forecasts, and dream of the sputtering rage he’s going to feel when he discovers how differently the general electorate reacts to bigotry compared to the primary electorate in a fourteen-way race . . .

      • Warmac9999

        What is behind the curtain is anger and frustration about a government totally distanced from the citizenry.

        • I know who you are.

          • Warmac9999

            I am the wizard of oz.

    • Stephen Fong

      The tragedy is not that we took their support (which is fine); it is that Republican leadership integrated them into the party, covered for them, and allowed them to play the political game to achieve their goals.

      So you wonder why these folks think it is ok to publicly air their radical views as Republicans? And that those views are supported by and acceptable to the general public?

  • David Southall

    I have thought for a while now that the alt-right anti-establishment was merely a group of nativist with a disdain for anyone who wasn’t…….. now well I don’t know, I think it’s much worse than I had previously thought, He mentioned he had been elected due to his passion etc etc….. if this is true and what we have seen from other recent electors we should have a great concern for the future of our party….

    • I am much more alarmed about the rise of the alt-right than I was six months ago. This is not merely a populist or nativist uprising.

      Something else is moving behind the curtain.

      • Peacemaker

        Was it you or Brian who told me the length of time, on average, any political system has survived in tact?

        • Probably Brian, but the rule of thumb? 200 years… and for republics, far less.

          • Peacemaker

            Well, there is your something else…possibly. Scary thought.

          • Well, 200 years without major changes. We had a major change 150 years ago so we’ve got some time left.

          • Peacemaker

            IDK…sometimes it seems like the nuts are running the asylum. The Doctors need to make a comeback, real soon. Xanax anyone?

          • Warmac9999

            Xanax doesn’t clarify reality, it blurs it.

          • Peacemaker

            EXACTLY

          • We’re getting there.

          • Reinhardt Reganbacker lll

            Who was the establishment in the Revolutionary War? What happened there, and why? Populists can only be pushed so far. History tells us what happens then.

          • David Southall

            YES SEE Civil War!!

      • David Southall

        that’s what I’m referring to Shaun, until now the next move was pretty easy to read, they were playing checkers…. now they’ve upped their game and I have no clue what the end game is.

        • Warmac9999

          Try Sun Tsu.

          • David Southall

            I’ve read it and listened to the audio book…. these guys aren’t following the theories or ideas….. more like a rogue nation in possession of a nuke

          • Warmac9999

            Read it again and this time put it in the context of 9/11 and all the recent bombings and attacks. To me, this is reminiscent of Vietnam and, in particular, the Tet Offensive.

          • David Southall

            ???? we’re referring to the next move from the alt-right, what are you talking about?

      • David Eggleston

        With the rise of anti-Semitism on American campuses, the rise of the alt-Right, and alt-Left for that matter, shouldn’t be too much of a surprise.

        • Warmac9999

          There ain’t no Alt-Right on campuses.

          • David Eggleston

            I was pointing to the increasing social respectability of racism over the last ten years.

          • Warmac9999

            I would agree. The attacks by the SJW, BLM and la Raza are constant to the point that any white person is declared guilty of white supremacy or privilege.

          • David Southall

            really…. I’ve never been declared guilty….. is it because of my tan….. come on dude really??

          • Warmac9999

            You could be like Rachel Duzzy-gal who is born white but identifies as black. Or, depending on the tan, you could be an antelope.

          • David Southall

            my last name is Southall…. as in Southall, England….. my skin tone comes from my blue collar and the whatever % of native American I am….

          • Warmac9999

            Do you know what is happening to Southall? Look up the future Islamic Capitol of England.

          • David Southall

            Ok

          • And by “future”, he means the future in one of his alternate realities.

            Today, I learned that Disqus has now added a “Block User” option. Thank you, whatever heavenly being that you believe in, if you believe in one.

          • Warmac9999

            So you can stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and scream lalalala.

      • Warmac9999

        What is behind the curtain is anger and frustration about a government totally distanced from the citizenry.

        • I know who you are.

          • Warmac9999

            I am the wizard of oz.

    • Stephen Fong

      The tragedy is not that we took their support (which is fine); it is that Republican leadership integrated them into the party, covered for them, and allowed them to play the political game to achieve their goals.

      So you wonder why these folks think it is ok to publicly air their radical views as Republicans? And that those views are supported by and acceptable to the general public?

  • Peacemaker

    Ya know, I think about the obvious positives that have come with social media. But more often than not, lately, I think that there should be a “waiting period” (voluntary, or imposed by x % of friends) before posting a hurtful, or just a dumbass comment.
    I understand you all would not have as much material, but doesn’t anyone wash their thoughts through a brain before typing?

    • Wisdom is the pause before thought and speech.

      Social media does a great job at erasing that pause…

      • Peacemaker

        yup

      • Peacemaker

        And why in the world would John Findlay stop the rightfully offended girl from reading her statement at the SCC meeting? You know that the “agenda” excuse is only good for limited use. That surprises me.

        • That quite frankly shocks and offends me. First off, not his place (ED is not a member of State Central). Second, it’s rude. Third, SCC is effectively the controlling board of the RPV… so that is, in effect, like telling your boss to shut up.

          Uncalled for, IMO.

          • Peacemaker

            That’s what I thought. I just didn’t know if there was a reason. But by stopping her, he helped make sure she posted her statement on Facebook. Not wise.

        • Warmac9999

          The reading of said statement would have blown up the meeting. How do you know that someone in the group didn’t suffer a loss associated with an Islamic terrorist attack and still harbors anger which is barely kept in control. If you are going to allow a statement then you are obligated to allow time for rebuttal or response. There is no win here.

          • David Southall

            do you think terrorist only kill non-Muslims…..

          • Warmac9999

            Nope. If they restricted themselves to killing each other we wouldn’t be seeing the genocidal slaughter of Christians in the mid-east and North Africa or terrorist attacks throughout the western world.

          • David Southall

            huh????? I’m referring to the killing of Muslims who refuse to become radicalized

          • Warmac9999

            Happened in Istanbul. Am sure some otherwise peaceful Muslims were killed by Muslims from Russia, Chechnya, and Uzbekistan. Hopefully, the EU will breakup and Western civilization will survive somewhere.

          • David Southall

            not I’m sure some were killed…. they were killed

          • Warmac9999

            I do not know who was killed. This is an international airport.

          • Peacemaker

            The statement was that of the jackass. The rebuttal was her statement. I do not think it would have blown up the meeting. There must be a few sensible folks who understand that as a SCC member herself, she had every right to make a statement to the SCC.

          • Warmac9999

            You would take a substantial risk by doing so. Again, if you can guarantee that no one else will respond, then let her read her statement. Once you open Pandora’s box, a lot of bad things can come out – and appear as a major news story. By the way, how many people attended this meeting – 10, 25, 100, more?

          • Peacemaker

            But the jackass is the one who opened the box. As a SCC committee member, she should have told Findlay she was going to read her statement, like it or not.

      • Chuck Geer

        Classic case in point: Ann Coulter.

        • Stephen Spiker

          Nah, Ann knows exactly what she’s saying. She’s the equivalent of a shock DJ.

          • Chuck Geer

            I’m not denying that. Shock DJs by definition say things that are unwise.

          • Stephen Spiker

            If she didn’t say the stupid things she does, we wouldn’t be talking about her right now. For her, that’s mission accomplished.

          • Chuck Geer

            Like the old sage said, wise women rarely make history.

        • Peacemaker

          UUUUGGGGGHHH.
          I can’t even stand to see her name in print. She and that buffoon from Alaska.

          • Chuck Geer

            Exactly the same here. Thing was, when Palin came on the scene in 2008, I liked her. But then the election happened, and she became overexposed. She became really trite overnight. The straw that broke the camel’s back in my liking her was her “defense” of Phil Robertson.

            Yes, we do have freedom of speech. However, we are not free from the consequences of that speech.

          • Warmac9999

            So if someone reads from the Bible during a sermon and someone else defends them from attack, you are all out. Talk about a sunshine patriot.

          • Warmac9999

            So you prefer the gals of the View? At least Coulter bothers to assemble a fact or two. Palin is just plain a tough gal who speaks her mind – I appreciate knowing where she is coming from thanks to her plain talk. RAT – Republicans against Trump is pretty succinct.

      • Warmac9999

        Wisdom is what comes with age and that is why the current crop of anti constitutional,socialists want the elderly dead.

  • Peacemaker

    Ya know, I think about the obvious positives that have come with social media. But more often than not, lately, I think that there should be a “waiting period” (voluntary, or imposed by x % of friends) before posting a hurtful, or just a dumbass comment.
    I understand you all would not have as much material, but doesn’t anyone wash their thoughts through a brain before typing?

    • Wisdom is the pause before thought and speech.

      Social media does a great job at erasing that pause…

      • Peacemaker

        yup

      • Peacemaker

        And why in the world would John Findlay stop the rightfully offended girl from reading her statement at the SCC meeting? You know that the “agenda” excuse is only good for limited use. That surprises me.

        • That quite frankly shocks and offends me. First off, not his place (ED is not a member of State Central). Second, it’s rude. Third, SCC is effectively the controlling board of the RPV… so that is, in effect, like telling your boss to shut up.

          Uncalled for, IMO.

          • Peacemaker

            That’s what I thought. I just didn’t know if there was a reason. But by stopping her, he helped make sure she posted her statement on Facebook. Not wise.

        • Warmac9999

          The reading of said statement would have blown up the meeting. How do you know that someone in the group didn’t suffer a loss associated with an Islamic terrorist attack and still harbors anger which is barely kept in control. If you are going to allow a statement then you are obligated to allow time for rebuttal or response. There is no win here.

          • David Southall

            do you think terrorist only kill non-Muslims…..

          • Warmac9999

            Nope. If they restricted themselves to killing each other we wouldn’t be seeing the genocidal slaughter of Christians in the mid-east and North Africa or terrorist attacks throughout the western world.

          • David Southall

            huh????? I’m referring to the killing of Muslims who refuse to become radicalized

          • Warmac9999

            Happened in Istanbul. Am sure some otherwise peaceful Muslims were killed by Muslims from Russia, Chechnya, and Uzbekistan. Hopefully, the EU will breakup and Western civilization will survive somewhere.

          • David Southall

            not I’m sure some were killed…. they were killed

          • Warmac9999

            I do not know who was killed. This is an international airport.

          • Peacemaker

            The statement was that of the jackass. The rebuttal was her statement. I do not think it would have blown up the meeting. There must be a few sensible folks who understand that as a SCC member herself, she had every right to make a statement to the SCC.

          • Warmac9999

            You would take a substantial risk by doing so. Again, if you can guarantee that no one else will respond, then let her read her statement. Once you open Pandora’s box, a lot of bad things can come out – and appear as a major news story. By the way, how many people attended this meeting – 10, 25, 100, more?

      • Chuck Geer

        Classic case in point: Ann Coulter.

        • Stephen Spiker

          Nah, Ann knows exactly what she’s saying. She’s the equivalent of a shock DJ.

  • Warmac9999

    This is simply a lynch mob mentality at work. If everyone who posts on this site were to be held to account, all would sin. Frankly, I appreciate all the diversity, even the supposedly ugly diversity, while it is apparent that some diversity is inexcusable because it is not political correct. The Republican Party is collapsing because of this ignorance, not because of Mr. Burgos frustration. Trump has it right – PC is dangerous and deadly.

    • Peacemaker

      Maybe there needs to be a distinction made between “Political correctness” and just being a jackass. I think many misunderstandings would never be.

      • Warmac9999

        Tell me how you distinguish the difference – political correctness is one viewpoint not the entirety of valid and significant viewpoints. What angers me is the constant silliness of micro aggression which takes political correctness to the point that we ban “boyfriend” and “girlfriend” so we don’t insults leftist idiots and homosexuals in particular. Now we have perverted the word “snowflake” as meaning a person so sensitive to anything that isn’t politically correct that they literally melt into emotional basket cases. Get over it is my answer and get a life to quote Shatner at a Star Trek convention.

        • Peacemaker

          We still call people boyfriend or girlfriend where I live, but snowflake has been around longer than I have.
          but the tweets from that jackass were, apparently, even recognized by the jackass. Hence the partial retraction, even admitting he has nothing against Muslims.

          • Warmac9999

            Well, how do we know whether he was pressured into an apology to save face or really meant it. Do you care which?

          • Peacemaker

            Reading the totality of his apology, it’s clear to me he wasn’t honestly sorry at all. And yes, I care. Because I care, he should not ever be in a leadership position.

        • Bobby

          Are you offended by the “silliness” of preachers calling for the death of homosexuals?

          • Warmac9999

            I certainly am, but the majority of those preachers are imams, sheiks or something else. Why just today, the alt news published pictures of homosexuals being thrown off of buildings in the mid-east.

          • Bobby

            You know I meant America Christian pastors…..

          • Warmac9999

            And I know that such Christian pastors haven’t killed anyone. I also know that a fair number of Christian pastors have been slaughtered by Muslims. You, apparently, don’t understand the difference between rhetoric and reality.

          • Stephen Spiker

            No Christian pastors have ever killed anyone?

          • Warmac9999

            The shoe is on your foot. Give me an example of an American Christian pastor killing anyone for a religious reason in the past few decades. None of this during the Crusades baloney – and America didn’t exist during the Christian Crusades.

          • Stephen Spiker

            Way to slip in the requirement that it be for religious reasons at the last minute.

          • Warmac9999

            A supposed pastor killing his wife so he can marry his mistress isn’t part of the discussion. It was about killing for religion.

          • Stephen Spiker

            Why do you say “supposed” pastor?

          • Bobby

            First, I didn’t say they did. I said they’ve called for death to homosexuals. I’m not going to do the research for you. My 6 year old could find those stories. What I do understand is that it seems as if you’re completely incapable of understanding the difference between being politically incorrect and being a jackass…. the original “tweets” were some guy being the latter.

          • Warmac9999

            And you have never been a jackass or even been called one? A sheltered life for sure.

          • Bobby

            Wow. That is your retort. What’s next, running off the tell your mommy I was picking on you?

          • Bobby

            And I’m not finding any American Muslim clerics who have killed anyone.

          • Warmac9999

            Try the Blind Sheik and the first World Trade Center bombing.

        • Peacemaker

          OK, I’ll try.
          No one has the luxury of saying whatever pops into his/her head without the willingness to accept the consequences that might come from what is said. Being “politically correct” is nothing more than simply not being rude. The ability for those with opposing and/or different life experiences to be able to have a civil conversation.

          Being a jackass is simply not giving a damn what affect your words have on others.

          • Warmac9999

            Political correctness is a new form of bigotry and a mechanism to shut down dialogue. People like spider, for example, use words like racist, nativist, islamophobe to try to shut down discussions and feel superior. He doesn’t want to do the hard work of actually debating those he disagrees with. I get very tired of dealing with him because he constantly twist my words. I work very hard to be precise in the use of language and he does not. I think Burgos comments were and are a distraction, but I do not find them inaccurate – they reflect the frustration that Obama has created. Obama is the catalyst for incivility and distrust, and he likes it that way.

          • Peacemaker

            His comments are hurtful, unnecessary and do nothing but further divide people who should be working together.
            Didn’t your mother ever tell you “If you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything”?

            You can discuss and debate different ideas without being a jackass. You and I have had many civil discussions on points that we disagree. Neither of us has resorted to Burgos type of language to make our point. THAT is what I mean.

            And Obama has nothing to do with this.

          • Warmac9999

            I think we come from a generation or upbringing where civility of discourse is important. We also have the advantage of English as a first language taught when precision in language was important rather than politically correct. We do not curse or condemn imprecisely. There are lots of folks who like to hide from discussion by using attributions that intend harm and are without substance or logic.

            Regarding Mr. Burgos. I took his side not because I think he was smart but because I saw a lynch mob in operation. He hasn’t said anything inaccurate if one actually bothers to analyze history and current events. There is certainly a question about whether his intentions were born of frustration and anger – or to be vindictive.

            Regarding Nadia. She took the comments as a personal insult without knowing what specifically motivated them. She has a right to have done so and she has a right to demand something be done. She does not have a right to prevent responses which do not agree with her position anymore than Burgos has a right to prevent additional responses that do not agree with him. She missed an opportunity to debate and educate but that is understandable because she is quite young.

          • Stephen Spiker

            KKK: [puts a flaming cross on a black family’s yard]

            Black family: This is an unacceptable bigoted attack.

            Warmac: The black family missed an opportunity to debate and educate.

          • Warmac9999

            That is criminal trespass punishable by fines and possible imprisonment. I don’t care if the black family took it as an insult as it was an act of criminal intimidation. Nothing Mr. Burgos said is criminal just stupid.

          • Stephen Spiker

            You complaining about Nadia’s response is hysterical. I’m in amazement you think anyone believes you when you say she should’ve taken the opportunity to “educate” — this blog the past few months have shown that people like you who are locked into a view of Muslims aren’t open to things like “learning about others”.

          • Warmac9999

            So now you are on my side – humorous. You don’t think she can educate anyone about Islam.

          • Stephen Spiker

            No, I don’t think there’s anything she can educate YOU about Islam. You have your mind made up: they’re all enemies of the United States, until it’s politically correct for you to pretend that you tolerate Muslims like Nadia.

            Here’s another question that you’ll ignore, like the other questions you’ve ignored: should Nadia be able to buy a gun?

            Don’t worry, I don’t expect you to answer, since your position is based on emotion and not logic.

          • Warmac9999

            Every American has a right and a duty to arm themselves. This is to defend themselves against assault and to defend the nation against enemies foreign and domestic. What they do with that right and duty is up to them.

            Far too many Americans take the second amendment lightly and put their survival in the hands of others. If Nadia wishes to carry, there are classes, gun shops and shows, and permits to conceal carry.

            Since I agree with Churchill, I can only conclude that you are ignorant, but based on your insipid comments, I see you as incurably ignorant and overly emotional. You make a good liberal not a good libertarian.

          • Stephen Spiker

            Right, “good libertarians” want to put people on government registries based on their religion.

            Since you’re now in an answering questions mood, here are two that you’ve ignored so far:

            1) If you agree that Nadia is not an enemy of the United States, how do you distinguish between her and all the Muslims that you believe are enemies of the United States?

            2) Since you admitted that bigotry is a concept that exists, what would you imagine bigotry against Muslims would look like?

          • Warmac9999

            1). I am not a mind reader.

            2). It would look like you and your Burgos lynch mob.

          • Stephen Spiker

            1) Does your suspicion any Muslim might be an enemy of the U.S. — you cannot be sure because, after all, you’re not a mind reader — extend to any other group of people? Whites? Blacks? Hispanics? Jews? Or just Muslims?

            2) Answer the question: if someone were bigoted against Muslims, what might they say or do that would demonstrate that bigotry?

            (3 – a response to someone’s actions cannot possibly be bigotry. Everyone here is responding to Burgos’s actions as an individual, not anything else. That’s literally the exact opposite of how you respond to groups of people who are different from you. I wouldn’t think this would be a hard concept to grasp.)

          • Warmac9999

            Islam is the greatest perpetrator of evil in today’s world. If you deny that, then there is no point for further discussion. You are a lost soul.

          • Stephen Spiker

            But Islam is an ideology (religious or political or both) — for it to perpetrate anything relies on the actions of individuals. That’s the fundamental difference between us, Warmac: you view ALL Muslims as potential threats based on who they are. That’s the dictionary definition of “prejudice” — judging before you know someone based on a category you’ve put them in.

            Your prerequisites for being a “found” soul are prejudice in one’s heart and fear and suspicion of our fellow man. I’ve never been impressed with the results of hatred as a movement, so consider me out on your little crusade.

          • Warmac9999

            The major difference between us is that you wish to deny reality. Germans are Germans for a reason. Muslims are Muslims for a reason. There is no such thing as individuals who are independent of their upbringing – the closest being some feral kid like a Tarzan.

          • Stephen Spiker

            Ah, so Muslims are evil because they were raised to be evil, by their evil mothers and evil fathers.

            I wonder: are white terrorists the product of their upbringing as well?

          • Warmac9999

            Why is it always white to you? Do you not realize that you are racist?

            The real question is are terrorists a product of their upbringing. From my observation and analysis that appears to be the case. Upbringing includes family, culture, friends and associates, ideology, etc.

          • Stephen Spiker

            “Why is it always white to you?” Because you’re the one with the double-standard. You treat whites as individuals, and non-whites as groups. The existence of white terrorists such as Dylann Roof or James Holmes doesn’t imply a creeping threat of further violence from whites to you. Yet you refuse to grant Muslims the same individuality. They’re all enemies. They’re all potential terrorists. They’re all to be hated and feared.

          • Warmac9999

            You equate insanity with Islamic terrorism. I think you are on to something.

          • Stephen Spiker

            Yes, I agree that radical Islamic extremism is a deviation from its parent root. I would be shocked to learn you share this view, as that would run counter to your many, many Muslim-bashing posts.

          • Warmac9999

            It is not a deviation from its parent root. muhammad was a warlord who spread Islam by the sword

          • Stephen Spiker

            So going back to my question that you haven’t answered yet:

            If you had to imagine bigotry against a Muslim, what would that look like?

            (This is asking a hypothetical question that might be tricky for you, as you see bigotry against Muslims as justified because they’re all enemies of the U.S.)

          • Stephen Spiker

            I use labels to accurately identify people, not to shut down debate. You are proudly and openly nativist and Islamophobic; I don’t know why you’d be offended by being called those things.

            I’m one of the few that engages in a dialogue with you here. And what do I get? I ask very simple, very basic questions of you, and you just change the topic or disappear.

      • Bobby

        I think Trump is the perfect example of that.

  • Warmac9999

    This is simply a lynch mob mentality at work. If everyone who posts on this site were to be held to account, all would sin. Frankly, I appreciate all the diversity, even the supposedly ugly diversity, while it is apparent that some diversity is inexcusable because it is not political correct. The Republican Party is collapsing because of this ignorance, not because of Mr. Burgos frustration. Trump has it right – PC is dangerous and deadly.

    • Peacemaker

      Maybe there needs to be a distinction made between “Political correctness” and just being a jackass. I think many misunderstandings would never be.

      • Warmac9999

        Tell me how you distinguish the difference – political correctness is one viewpoint not the entirety of valid and significant viewpoints. What angers me is the constant silliness of micro aggression which takes political correctness to the point that we ban “boyfriend” and “girlfriend” so we don’t insults leftist idiots and homosexuals in particular. Now we have perverted the word “snowflake” as meaning a person so sensitive to anything that isn’t politically that they literally melt into emotional basket cases. Get over it is my answer and get a life to quote Shatner at a Star Trek convention.

        • Peacemaker

          We still call people boyfriend or girlfriend where I live, but snowflake has been around longer than I have.
          but the tweets from that jackass were, apparently, even recognized by the jackass. Hence the partial retraction, even admitting he has nothing against Muslims.

          • Warmac9999

            Well, how do we know whether he was pressured into an apology to save face or really meant it. Do you care which?

        • Bobby

          Are you offended by the “silliness” of preachers calling for the death of homosexuals?

          • Warmac9999

            I certainly am, but the majority of those preachers are imams, sheiks or something else. Why just today, the alt news published pictures of homosexuals being thrown off of buildings in the mid-east.

          • Bobby

            You know I meant America Christian pastors…..

          • Warmac9999

            And I know that such Christian pastors haven’t killed anyone. I also know that a fair number of Christian pastors have been slaughtered by Muslims. You, apparently, don’t understand the difference between rhetoric and reality.

          • Stephen Spiker

            No Christian pastors have ever killed anyone?

          • Warmac9999

            The shoe is on your foot. Give me an example of an American Christian pastor killing anyone for a religious reason in the past few decades. None of this during the Crusades baloney.

      • Bobby

        I think Trump is the perfect example of that.

  • Reinhardt Reganbacker lll

    Looks like some people hate populists, some hate the establishment, some hate the Tea Party, some hate Brat, and some hate Islam. They or we, all point the finger at the other guy. But, when you get right down to it, there is not a lot of difference. Hate is hate.

    • Warmac9999

      Never mistake concern, fear, frustration or anger for hate. Hate is a very specific and absolute emotional response.

      • Reinhardt Reganbacker lll

        Your concern, fear, anger, frustration pretty much fits the Merriam Webster dictionary definition of hate. See for yourself.

        • Warmac9999

          Loathe, dispose, dislike are synonyms for hate.

          • Reinhardt Reganbacker lll
          • Warmac9999

            So when you get angry with your wife, you hate her?

          • Reinhardt Reganbacker lll

            Ask Webster.

            But personally, I’d say it is when you “let the sun go down on your anger” that it can become hate.

          • Stephen Spiker

            This is like watching two chatbots go at it.

          • Lee Pillsbury

            Or two imaginary playmates.

          • Peacemaker

            hehe I see what you did there 🙂

    • David Southall

      disagreeing with someone’s ideology or theories (see Brat) is one thing but to blame an entire religion based on the actions of the few is not acceptable….

  • Reinhardt Reganbacker lll

    Looks like some people hate populists, some hate the establishment, some hate the Tea Party, some hate Brat, and some hate Islam. They or we, all point the finger at the other guy. But, when you get right down to it, there is not a lot of difference. Hate is hate.

    • Warmac9999

      Never mistake concern, fear, frustration or anger for hate. Hate is a very specific and absolute emotional response.

      • Reinhardt Reganbacker lll

        Your concern, fear, anger, frustration pretty much fits the Merriam Webster dictionary definition of hate. See for yourself.

        • Warmac9999

          Loathe, dispose, dislike are synonyms for hate.

          • Reinhardt Reganbacker lll
          • Warmac9999

            So when you get angry with your wife, you hate her?

          • Reinhardt Reganbacker lll

            Ask Webster.

            But personally, I’d say it is when you “let the sun go down on your anger” that it can become hate.

          • Stephen Spiker

            This is like watching two chatbots go at it.

          • Lee Pillsbury

            Or two imaginary playmates.

    • David Southall

      disagreeing with someone’s ideology or theories (see Brat) is one thing but to blame an entire religion based on the actions of the few is not acceptable….

  • Downstater

    These comments by Burgos are outrageous! Everyone knows that Islam is the religion of peace.

    • Warmac9999

      And the ideology of war.

      • David Southall

        that’s simply not true…. Muhammed Ali gave up several years of his career because he opposed war…. he was a member of the Nation of Islam.

        • Warmac9999

          But Muhammad the original was a warlord. The Koran was compiled a few decades after his death.

          • David Southall

            Okay and the Templar knights violently converted Pagans to Christianity….

          • Warmac9999

            And why were the Templers formed? Hmmmmm!

          • David Southall

            To protect the covenant

          • Warmac9999

            After nearly 500 years of Islamic and other forms of banditry that affected the holy land among other locations, a military campaign was undertaken under the auspices of the Pope. The Knights Templar came out of the conflict. I suggest some of you look up the Islamic crusades. The history is important to any discussion of Christian crusades.

          • David Southall

            This war is some 1200+ years old, now it’s on our soil. And now they have guns and bombs v. Swords.

          • Warmac9999

            Apparently what you have just said is horribly and inexcusably politically incorrect and the lynch will now turn on you for your indiscretions.

          • David Southall

            Why? Because I know the difference between peaceful Muslims and radical Islamist?

          • Warmac9999

            Sorry, David, but that isn’t possible. Virtually every terrorist attack in the USA has come about when supposedly peaceful Muslims suddenly go rogue. Unless you can read minds, you cannot know the difference.

          • Stephen Spiker

            Are all Muslims enemies of the United States?

          • Downstater

            Two wrongs don’t make a right and they should be blamed, but that is history.

            I do not see the Knights Templar conducting mass-shootings in Florida, detonating themselves for maximum mayhem in the Istanbul airport, and killing in the name of their religion in a Paris nightclub.

            This sounds like an “Obama” style defense.

          • David Southall

            Sure, I agree. I also refuse to consider a religion of 1.5 billion members evil because of a couple hundred thousand claiming that’s their acts are in the name of Allah.

  • Downstater

    These comments by Burgos are outrageous! Everyone knows that Islam is the religion of peace.

    • Warmac9999

      And the ideology of war.

      • David Southall

        that’s simply not true…. Muhammed Ali gave up several years of his career because he opposed war…. he was a member of the Nation of Islam.

        • Warmac9999

          But Muhammad the original was a warlord. The Koran was compiled a few decades after his death.

          • David Southall

            Okay and the Templar knights violently converted Pagans to Christianity….

          • Warmac9999

            And why were the Templers formed? Hmmmmm!

          • David Southall

            To protect the covenant

          • Warmac9999

            After nearly 500 years of Islamic and other forms of banditry that affected the holy land among other locations, a military campaign was undertaken under the auspices of the Pope. The Knights Templar came out of the conflict. I suggest some of you look up the Islamic crusades. The history is important to any discussion of Christian crusades.

          • David Southall

            This war is some 1200+ years old, now it’s on our soil. And now they have guns and bombs v. Swords.

          • Warmac9999

            Apparently what you have just said is horribly and inexcusably politically incorrect and the lynch will now turn on you for your indiscretions.

          • David Southall

            Why? Because I know the difference between peaceful Muslims and radical Islamist?

          • Warmac9999

            Sorry, David, but that isn’t possible. Virtually every terrorist attack in the USA has come about when supposedly peaceful Muslims suddenly go rogue. Unless you can read minds, you cannot know the difference.

          • Stephen Spiker

            Are all Muslims enemies of the United States?

          • Downstater

            Two wrongs don’t make a right and they should be blamed, but that is history.

            I do not see the Knights Templar conducting mass-shootings in Florida, detonating themselves for maximum mayhem in the Istanbul airport, and killing in the name of their religion in a Paris nightclub.

            This sounds like an “Obama” style defense.

          • David Southall

            Sure, I agree. I also refuse to consider a religion of 1.5 billion members evil because of a couple hundred thousand claiming that’s their acts are in the name of Allah.

  • Scout

    I read the Post story this morning, and the post above. I don’t have the slightest idea how Burgos could think that his remarks were “misconstrued” or that he “misspoke”. The statements were quite plain. He compounds the problem in his “apology” by saying that he is “fiercely dedicated to the Conservative Movement and the Republican Party.” He demonstrably is dedicated to neither. If he were, he could not and would nothave said what he said. So I repeat my question from an earlier comment thread on this subject: Where do such people come from, and how do they come to sit on RPV’s State Central Committee? It is a world very much gone mad where such a thing could happen.

    These kinds of statements can’t be taken back or explained away, whether it be by persons as as obscure as Mr. Burgos or more visible people such as the presumptive nominee for the candidacy for the Presidency of the Republic). They betray both ignorance and malice, incompetence in leadership and governance, disrespect for the Republic and its more noble principles and aspirations, and a failure to sense that what makes America exceptional is the timely assertion of the will of what Mr. Lincoln called the “better angels of our nature” against the corrupt, universal human passions that seek to pull us into the pit of just every other grasping national or tribal grouping.

    These words like these come out of Burgos’s mouth (or his social media mouth). The words reflect the contents of his mind, heart and soul. Even if he somewhere internally understands their evil, he is defined because he tries to use them for political effect. If he doesn’t have that internal understanding, they define him for his lack of understanding of the exceptional nobility of the American ethic. Apologies, particularly half-hearted ones. don’t un-ring the bell. Apologies or clarifications don’t make the words more ambiguous or less corrosive. They define the utterer utterly, completely and permanently. Others have to decide whether they can make political common cause with such people, be it Burgos, Trump or all the wannabes in between. If the answer is that there are a large number of people who fail to protest, then we lose what makes us special as a constitutional Republic built on our better angels.

    • Jay Hughes

      If I may tack my measly $0.02 to the extremely articulate Mr. Scout’s comment, what Mr. Burgos is learning the hard way is that when one freely chooses to seek, win and accept partisan or public office, one is held to a higher standard and a higher degree of scrutiny than one who chooses to remain a private citizen. This is because that person now represents a constituency instead of his/her own personal views and opinions. That having been said, Brian is also right that Mr. Burgos’ constituency either heartily agrees with his statements or are nonplussed by them. So it’s highly unlikely his constituency will call for his removal. So as H.L. Mencken said: Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and they deserve to get it good and hard.” So what’s the good news? Well the good news is there are new faces from different backgrounds in the party like Ms. Elgendy. Ms. Elgendy has taken the high road with her op-ed here on Bearing Drift responding to Mr. Burgos’ obvious bout with cranio-rectal inversion. The Republican Party is slowly coming to terms with accepting new faces and new backgrounds and that’s good news.

      • Peacemaker

        Only one issue…I do not see the Republican Party accepting new faces. I see a great many of them who are scared to death of simple demographics.

        • Chuck Geer

          Same here.

        • Warmac9999

          Hey, the GOP establishment is even scared of its base. The response to the Tea Party is quite revealing. Regardless of who wins this election, a major shift is coming and the GOP could very well disappear.

    • Downstater

      Wait a min. Almost every week, we are hit with a new violent attack perpetuated in the name of Islam, and Burgos is “evIl”? (I am not defending his judgement in posting his words under his real name, for Pete’s sake. He should have known better).

      • Warmac9999

        The irony can’t be missed.

      • Scout

        I wasn’t comparing Burgos to some Da’esh murderer in Raqqa, Downstater. I was comparing Burgos to a lot of people, prominent and unknown, who have given time and energy to the political party with which I and my ancestors have been affiliated since the 1850s. By that standard (while not perfect at all times, but one that has had its significant points of nobility at times when nobility of purpose and character were what the Nation deserved and required), Burgos falls so far short that he doesn’t even register at the sub-molecular level. The same could be said for others trying to ride this wave for political purposes. I could just dismiss them as the political equivalent of English football yobs, except for the fact that they are hanging around Republican Party premises and pretend to belong there. That reflects on all of us if we don’t roust them out. They contribute nothing, but they can do untold, irreparable damage to one of the two major political parties that make the electoral process run hereabouts

        If you think the standard for behavior for political leaders in this Republic, even at the state and local level, is some murderous fanatic in Syria, Downstater, that defines you pretty clearly also. If you think the problem with the content of what he said is that he didn’t say it anonymously, you might want to go think some more.

        • Peacemaker

          Important point that has been slightly overlooked: On this blog, usually, even the anonymous posters get it in the teeth when they make comments like this. And they should. Who the hell will ever want to join the party of “angry white men”? Answer…no one other than angry white men.

          • Warmac9999

            Sadly, there was another mass sex assault similar to Cologne. Only this time it was at a street party in Sweden. Info available on Breitbart.

      • redvagirl0458

        Burgos specifically blanketed all Muslims and Islam in his statements, rather than choosing to refer to the 40K – 50K out of over 1 Billion Muslims who are Islamic Extremists.

        Also, you would have been fine with him posting these anonymously? He shouldn’t have posted them at all. They are bigoted statements. Trust me, if 1 Billion people wanted us dead, we’d be dead already. They don’t. The radical extremists do, and that’s the portion of the population that we should be focusing on when commenting.

        There are many things done in the name of Christianity – I don’t hear anyone calling the Westboro Baptist nuts, or the KKK ‘Christian’ when they commit their terror-like and shameful acts.

        But really, that you intimate that you’d be fine with this had he just not posted under his real name is sad in and of itself. You shouldn’t be okay with bigotry.

        • Warmac9999

          Where do you come up with your number of 40,000 to 50,000? If polls are correct in this matter, it is more like 250,000,000. At the very least, 1% is 1,600,000 of the presumed 1.6 billion Muslims.

        • Downstater

          I will call the Westboro Baptists “nuts” and the KKK “evil”. No problem. Maybe not all Muslims are terrorists, but there seem to be enough that are that they are causing considerable damage. There was an attack in Bangladesh today, and warnings of stepped-up security here for the holiday weekend. Is that not enough for you?

      • Sammy

        (I am not defending his judgement in posting his words under his real name, for Pete’s sake. He should have known better)

        Here’s the deal: the GOP is never going to make substantial endroads with growing populations of minority voters as people think the problem is that someone publicly broadcast a bigoted attitude under his own name. Minority voters have long believed that there is an undercurrent of racism and bigotry in the Republican Party. And while certainly a strong, strong majority of Republicans do not harbor racist attitudes, the startling number of people who are scurrying out of the woodwork to express bigoted or supremacist attitudes does justifiably make those voters feel like they’re not welcome. But they’re not going to feel less unwelcome just because certain people post their screeds anonymously.

        …indeed, I imagine that persistent, anonymous displays of public bigotry might actually be even more off-putting.

        It’s to the credit of many people on this blog that they’re starting to make a point of strongly and repeatedly condemning the bigots who have felt safe venturing out of the closet this election cycle–whether the comments are made on a SCC member’s personal twitter account or by an anonymous commenter on this blog.

        • Bingo.

        • Chuck Geer

          AMEN!!!

        • Downstater

          Wait a min. I thought Burgos was one of the “minorities” we were trying to attract to our party. He even says that his first language is not English. Cynicism aside, I do not know him personally, but I hope he is allowed to continue with SCC and we can move past this.

          What I was trying to say in a response to Spiker, was that this blog is a sounding board to air what many of us REALLY think, not an official party-approved site. Americans are tired of fake.

          • Sammy

            Wow, I thought you were kidding at first. But you really and truly believe that a bigoted comment cannot make an racially, ethnically, or religiously diverse voters feel unwelcome so long as they’re delivered by someone who is, himself, a minority, huh? Huh.

            If only an ethnic or religious minority had tried to stand up during the SCC meeting to explain why comments like these make her feel unwelcome in the party? Maybe it would have also helped if she’d posted a comment on this flipping blog? But I guess we can take your word for it that everything’s fine.

          • Downstater

            Oh god, you really took this comment seriously, didn’t you? I was poking fun at everyone’s political correctness. Anyway, the first comment about him being stupid enough to post under his real name also seems to have been taken in way too serious a context by everyone. Geez. Like “how dare you say that?? I’m outraged! At least make up a screen name first!”

          • Stephen Spiker

            You say stupid shit all the time. How was anyone supposed to know this time you didn’t mean it?

  • Scout

    I read the Post story this morning, and the post above. I don’t have the slightest idea how Burgos could think that his remarks were “misconstrued” or that he “misspoke”. The statements were quite plain. He compounds the problem in his “apology” by saying that he is “fiercely dedicated to the Conservative Movement and the Republican Party.” He demonstrably is dedicated to neither. If he were, he could not and would nothave said what he said. So I repeat my question from an earlier comment thread on this subject: Where do such people come from, and how do they come to sit on RPV’s State Central Committee? It is a world very much gone mad where such a thing could happen.

    These kinds of statements can’t be taken back or explained away, whether it be by persons as as obscure as Mr. Burgos or more visible people such as the presumptive nominee for the candidacy for the Presidency of the Republic). They betray both ignorance and malice, incompetence in leadership and governance, disrespect for the Republic and its more noble principles and aspirations, and a failure to sense that what makes America exceptional is the timely assertion of the will of what Mr. Lincoln called the “better angels of our nature” against the corrupt, universal human passions that seek to pull us into the pit of just every other grasping national or tribal grouping.

    These words like these come out of Burgos’s mouth (or his social media mouth). The words reflect the contents of his mind, heart and soul. Even if he somewhere internally understands their evil, he is defined because he tries to use them for political effect. If he doesn’t have that internal understanding, they define him for his lack of understanding of the exceptional nobility of the American ethic. Apologies, particularly half-hearted ones. don’t un-ring the bell. Apologies or clarifications don’t make the words more ambiguous or less corrosive. They define the utterer utterly, completely and permanently. Others have to decide whether they can make political common cause with such people, be it Burgos, Trump or all the wannabes in between. If the answer is that there are a large number of people who fail to protest, then we lose what makes us special as a constitutional Republic built on our better angels.

    • Jay Hughes

      If I may tack my measly $0.02 to the extremely articulate Mr. Scout’s comment, what Mr. Burgos is learning the hard way is that when one freely chooses to seek, win and accept partisan or public office, one is held to a higher standard and a higher degree of scrutiny than one who chooses to remain a private citizen. This is because that person now represents a constituency instead of his/her own personal views and opinions. That having been said, Brian is also right that Mr. Burgos’ constituency either heartily agrees with his statements or are nonplussed by them. So it’s highly unlikely his constituency will call for his removal. So as H.L. Mencken said: Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and they deserve to get it good and hard.” So what’s the good news? Well the good news is there are new faces from different backgrounds in the party like Ms. Elgendy. Ms. Elgendy has taken the high road with her op-ed here on Bearing Drift responding to Mr. Burgos’ obvious bout with cranio-rectal inversion. The Republican Party is slowly coming to terms with accepting new faces and new backgrounds and that’s good news.

    • Downstater

      Wait a min. Almost every week, we are hit with a new violent attack perpetuated in the name of Islam, and Burgos is “evIl”? (I am not defending his judgement in posting his words under his real name, for Pete’s sake. He should have known better).

      • Warmac9999

        The irony can’t be missed.

      • Scout

        I wasn’t comparing Burgos to some Da’esh murderer in Raqqa, Downstater. I was comparing Burgos to a lot of people, prominent and unknown, who have given time and energy to the political party with which I and my ancestors have been affiliated since the 1850s. By that standard (while not perfect at all times, but one that has had its significant points of nobility at times when nobility of purpose and character were what the Nation deserved and required), Burgos falls so far short that he doesn’t even register at the sub-molecular level. The same could be said for others trying to ride this wave for political purposes. I could just dismiss them as the political equivalent of English football yobs, except for the fact that they are hanging around Republican Party premises and pretend to belong there. That reflects on all of us if we don’t roust them out. They contribute nothing, but they can do untold, irreparable damage to one of the two major political parties that make the electoral process run hereabouts

        If you think the standard for behavior for political leaders in this Republic, even at the state and local level, is some murderous fanatic in Syria, Downstater, that defines you pretty clearly also. If you think the problem with the content of what he said is that he didn’t say it anonymously, you might want to go think some more.

      • redvagirl0458

        Burgos specifically blanketed all Muslims and Islam in his statements, rather than choosing to refer to the 40K – 50K out of over 1 Billion Muslims who are Islamic Extremists.

        Also, you would have been fine with him posting these anonymously? He shouldn’t have posted them at all. They are bigoted statements. Trust me, if 1 Billion people wanted us dead, we’d be dead already. They don’t. The radical extremists do, and that’s the portion of the population that we should be focusing on when commenting.

        There are many things done in the name of Christianity – I don’t hear anyone calling the Westboro Baptist nuts, or the KKK ‘Christian’ when they commit their terror-like and shameful acts.

        But really, that you intimate that you’d be fine with this had he just not posted under his real name is sad in and of itself. You shouldn’t be okay with bigotry.

        • Warmac9999

          Where do you come up with your number of 40,000 to 50,000? If polls are correct in this matter, it is more like 250,000,000. At the very least, 1% is 1,600,000 of the presumed 1.6 billion Muslims.

      • Sammy

        (I am not defending his judgement in posting his words under his real name, for Pete’s sake. He should have known better)

        Here’s the deal: the GOP is never going to make substantial endroads with growing populations of minority voters as people think the problem is that someone publicly broadcast a bigoted attitude under his own name. Minority voters have long believed that there is an undercurrent of racism and bigotry in the Republican Party. And while certainly a strong, strong majority of Republicans do not harbor racist attitudes, the startling number of people who are scurrying out of the woodwork to express bigoted or supremacist attitudes does justifiably make those voters feel like they’re not welcome. But they’re not going to feel less unwelcome just because certain people post their screeds anonymously.

        …indeed, I imagine that persistent, anonymous displays of public bigotry might actually be even more off-putting.

        It’s to the credit of many people on this blog that they’re starting to make a point of strongly and repeatedly condemning the bigots who have felt safe venturing out of the closet this election cycle–whether the comments are made on a SCC member’s personal twitter account or by an anonymous commenter on this blog.

  • Downstater

    Burgos. One question. Why didn’t you learn from the follies of other RVP leaders and at least POST UNDER A SCREEN NAME? I mean, most of us secretly agree with your assessment of Islam in general, okay, but we can’t be party officials and say so publicly without reprimand (from Whitbeck, no less, who had his own faux pas), and others. It is very easy to get carried away by the emotion of the moment on social media, and one thing leads to another.

    Time after time we see the same thing. Some Republican has posted something on social media under his real name that doesn’t follow the party line and then there is fall-out. And I understand why Muslim Republicans would be upset about it, believe it or not. They are primarily social conservatives and want to be part of our party, and do not want to be lumped in with terrorists.

    • Warmac9999

      You describe one of the many tragedies of political correctness.

    • Lee Pillsbury

      Being an ANONYMOUS bigot is acceptable to you?

      • Stephen Spiker

        Being a named bigot is also acceptable to him, but he recognizes that being openly bigoted comes with consequences.

        I’m sure you’ve noticed that all of the bigots and hateful posters hide behind pseudonyms — Downstater, Warmac, dcgorilla, RRIII — while the ones rebutting them use their full real names.

        • Downstater

          I joined this and other blogs to hear the truth that is really going through others’ minds, not the “sanitized” Politically Correct version that party officials and other career bureaucrats have to present to the public in order to keep all sides happy. Go on any social media blog, and then throw the first stone.

          So, in a sense, Spiker, I am kind of agreeing with you that if Burgos was going to “spout off”, given that he is a party official, he should have realized that there would be consequences. Sort of like when I was a child and my father called his boss a horse’s……(no race difference, so I guess it was okay by you). Then I was told in no uncertain terms not to repeat that when she came to our house for dinner.

          So, what I am getting at, is are the really cleaned up nicey comments by you leaders who have to post under your real names the unvarnished truth? Or are y’all (Brian S, Shaun, you, etc.) just needing to be really, really, careful not to offend Muslims, Illegals, Gays, Liberals, etc. as part of your officialdom? I mean, Brian, for example, frequently runs for office, so he is probably confined to having to check everything he posts. You too, seem to be posting under your real name.

          I wanted to learn the truth of what people are really thinking, not what they have to say in public – the good, the bad, and the ugly, but not the fake.

          • Lee Pillsbury

            This may be hard for you to understand but most of us who post under our real names do so because we have an integrated philosophy and some guiding principles. We are free to post what we think, under our real names because we are willing to stand behind our comments. Its called integrity. You and Warmac know deep inside that you are wrong and you are ashamed to post under your own names.

          • Downstater

            I do not know if “Lee Pillsbury” is even your real name or not. Yes, the B.D. staff, they are real. If so, can you honestly say that you don’t have to continually censor what you put here? Most of us have to do this in the workplace, etc. (ie: try calling the boss a jerk because that is how you really feel).

            You probably also know that anyone who posts even the most benign stuff on a political board can became a target on social media. I’ve heard this from party officials and activists who have been harassed. Actually, I remember “Turbo Cohen” getting into trouble for something he posted. There was a discussion about it here, with his real first name identified.

            Furthermore, all I was saying is that if Burgos had posted under a screen name, it wouldn’t have gotten into the press, and we wouldn’t be talking about it now. Apparently the B.D. editorial board and you are “shocked” that anyone should question “the religion of peace”.

          • Stephen Spiker

            No one here is shocked by Islamophobia.

          • Warmac9999

            And I am not shocked by the politically correct bigotry of a lynch mob.

          • Stephen Spiker

            Warmac, why you equate being shamed on a blog with being lynched? Those are very different things.

          • Scout

            I’ve tried to follow this point through the sub-thread here, and I can’t make heads or tails of it, Downstater. I guess if you’re saying that, had Burgos spouted nonsense anonymously, we wouldn’t be jumping on him here, there’s an inescapable logic to that. There are a lot of ignorant people out there and lots of them say stupid things. This is part of the atmospherics these days and probably always has been in one form or another. That doesn’t mean that civilized, ethical people don’t object to the ideas conveyed or the spirit behind them.

            Those of us who are pushing back on this site are doing so on several levels – one is the content of the remarks, by whomever uttered. Another is the fact that this guy (since we do know who it is) actually (and surprisingly) has a position of at least nominal responsibility within a political party with which a number of us have some varying degrees of connection. The fact that we know who he is and know that he can drag us all down with him, politically and/or reputationally, means that of course we’re going to comment negatively, perhaps more than we would if his words were anonymous graffiti spray-painted on a wall or the ramblings of an unknown street corner drunk with no ties to the GOP.

            So, what the hell are you trying to say?

          • Downstater

            Your 1st paragraph pretty much sums it up. Every couple of months, some RPV official sticks his foot in his mouth with some social media post or remark, and then the principals of this blog fall all over themselves to write an op-ed denouncing it as being bad for the party, and calling for his resignation.

          • Scout

            Is there a problem with that?

          • Stephen Spiker

            I love that you can’t imagine a scenario where people aren’t intolerant of those who are different than them. It makes perfect sense, really.

          • Chuck Geer

            Of course you do know that if you assert the existence of liberal political correctness you are presupposing conservative political correctness, don’t you?!

          • Warmac9999

            I have yet to hear of any conservative PC leading to violence in the cities, at Trump rallies, and on colleges campuses. It is all initiated by the left who want freedom of speech replaced by social justice and fairness.

          • Stephen Spiker

            We’ve seen plenty of violence from Trump supporters this campaign, and much of it not initiated by anyone else.

          • Warmac9999

            I am not sure whether you are being silly or have gone insane.

          • Stephen Spiker

            If I post links of news stories of violence started by Trump supporters, will you admit that you are wrong?

            Or is denying reality the only way you can survive day-to-day?

          • Warmac9999

            Go right ahead. However, to be fair, post all of the stories of violence started by trump supporters and violence started by trump protestors. None of this biased analysis which you so love.

          • Stephen Spiker

            So you admit there have been violence started by Trump supporters? Does that mean I am no longer silly or insane, or was your substance-less attack an unrelated comment?

          • Warmac9999

            Nope!!!

          • Stephen Spiker

            Okay, old man.

  • Downstater

    Burgos. One question. Why didn’t you learn from the follies of other RVP leaders and at least POST UNDER A SCREEN NAME? I mean, most of us secretly agree with your assessment of Islam in general, okay, but we can’t be party officials and say so publicly without reprimand (from Whitbeck, no less, who had his own faux pas), and others. It is very easy to get carried away by the emotion of the moment on social media, and one thing leads to another.

    Time after time we see the same thing. Some Republican has posted something on social media under his real name that doesn’t follow the party line and then there is fall-out. And I understand why Muslim Republicans would be upset about it, believe it or not. They are primarily social conservatives and want to be part of our party, and do not want to be lumped in with terrorists.

    • Warmac9999

      You describe one of the many tragedies of political correctness.

    • Lee Pillsbury

      Being an ANONYMOUS bigot is acceptable to you?

      • Stephen Spiker

        Being a named bigot is also acceptable to him, but he recognizes that being openly bigoted comes with consequences.

        I’m sure you’ve noticed that all of the bigots and hateful posters hide behind pseudonyms — Downstater, Warmac, dcgorilla, RRIII — while the ones rebutting them use their full real names.

  • DJRippert

    Throughout the 1970s and 1980s the Irish Republican Army conducted both military and terrorist attacks against British soldiers and civilians. The IRA claimed to represent Irish Catholics wanting to unify Ireland. They solicited funds for “the cause” from Irish – Americans in the United States.

    Despite being a Catholic of Irish descent I never accepted the IRA as representing me in any way. Moreover, nobody ever claimed that all Catholics, all irishmen or all Irish Americans were terrorists. The IRA was seen for what it was – a fanatical band of indiscriminate killers.

    Over time the IRA and the British agreed to a cease fire and things have been peaceful for a long time.

    It is no more right to condemn all Muslims for the actions of the Islamic terrorists than it would have been to condemn all Catholics for the actions of the IRA.

    • Chuck Geer

      And guess which major party Presidential candidate attended and contributed to an IRA fundraiser?! His initials are Donald Trump.

      http://youtu.be/k2ZPcPHJAno

    • Warmac9999

      It was not a religious war. It was not about conquest. It was a strange twist on a revolution against oppression.

  • DJRippert

    Throughout the 1970s and 1980s the Irish Republican Army conducted both military and terrorist attacks against British soldiers and civilians. The IRA claimed to represent Irish Catholics wanting to unify Ireland. They solicited funds for “the cause” from Irish – Americans in the United States.

    Despite being a Catholic of Irish descent I never accepted the IRA as representing me in any way. Moreover, nobody ever claimed that all Catholics, all irishmen or all Irish Americans were terrorists. The IRA was seen for what it was – a fanatical band of indiscriminate killers.

    Over time the IRA and the British agreed to a cease fire and things have been peaceful for a long time.

    It is no more right to condemn all Muslims for the actions of the Islamic terrorists than it would have been to condemn all Catholics for the actions of the IRA.

    • Chuck Geer

      And guess which major party Presidential candidate attended and contributed to an IRA fundraiser?! His initials are Donald Trump.

      http://youtu.be/k2ZPcPHJAno

  • Chuck Geer

    Republicans need to shoot the dog that is the “Southern Strategy” and bury it for good. But, unfortunately, far too many people are comfortable with it around.

  • Chuck Geer

    Republicans need to shoot the dog that is the “Southern Strategy” and bury it for good. But, unfortunately, far too many people are comfortable with it around.

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