5:57pm | Almost time to go! Medium attendance at J. Seargeant Reynolds tonight, mostly supporters who have pretty much figured out who they are supporting (or who is paying them for the privilege).
6:04pm | John Fredericks is calling up the candidates to the podium… we’re due to go on air shortly.
There’s quite a few folks in the room — the notable of notables of the Virginia political circuit. Zach Werrell (Haley) is working the room with his customary energy. Janis volunteers are out and about in force. Had a good conversation with Eddie Whitlock, and Dr. Siobhan Dunnavant’s loyal supporters — Janet Kelly among them — are present as well.
Baird Stokes is a rockstar if you don’t know this already. Dave Johnson has shown up, Jim Beamer is present and accounted for.
6:06pm | Seated left to right at the podium is Dunnavant, Haley, a very large mote box, Janis, and Whitlock. Janis and Whitlock are bantering like old pros. Dunnavant and Haley are barely conservant (thout Dunnavant is smiling a great deal and looks happy to be there — in green, of course).
I’d estimate roughly 80-100 people in the room. State Senator Walter Stosch is present tonight, and the number of Janis stickers seems to be improved slightly.
6:08pm | KICKOFF!
6:10pm | Fredericks introduces JSR’s President Rose. One out of every four workers in the Richmond area has attended J. Seargant… when asked, half the room raises their hand as well. Wow.
6:12pm | Delegate Jimmie Massie up to say the pledge. Rumor in the crowd (and it has been repeated) is that Massie will be receiving a primary challenge for his endorsement of former Del. Bill Janis.
Former RPV executive director Anthony Reedy is here as well. Star studded crowd!
6:15pm | Fredericks describes the parameters of the debate. 2:00 introductions, 3 rounds, each candidate will ask the other candidate one question. Candidate that receives the Q gets 90 seconds to respond. Other candidates have 60 seconds to respond, and the person asked gets a 30 second final word.
Crowd is remarkably evenly balanced. Haley and Janis appear to have the inside track, Dunnavant.
6:17pm | Dr. Siobhan Dunnavant kicks off. Four children, doctorate, hard work and fortitude. Runs a small business and makes payroll. Started another business, a social enterprise with the Little Sisters of the Poor, and Patriot Babies. Creative solutions to problems we live with every day. Transformational event was when Obamacare took effect, she had to sell her business and put it under the hospital. Children don’t see the same opportunities she did; not the same belief in the economy. Not enough to identify a problem, you have to be a part of the change. Small government run like a small business, accountable and sets priorities, and we need a medical voice in the Senate.
6:19pm | Vince Haley goes next. Appalled by the increasing lawlessness of the federal government. Sees the overreach in Virginia, and sees the solution in the states. Immigration, EPA rates, religious liberty. Takes on Herring on illegal amnesty and marriage. Worked with Gingrich…
Two notes: (1) Fredericks mispronounced Dunnavant’s name… as in, got Siobhan, but missed Dunnavant, and (2) Haley is reading his remarks…
6:21pm | Bill Janis — husband, father, attorney. Served in the House of Delegates. Crusader for the unborn, champion for the 2A, watchdog for the taxpayer, and preserve religious freedom. 100% 2A rating, pro-life, Eagle Forum named him as the legislator of the year. You will hear a lot tonight about what folks would do, but only Janis has proven that he will do what he says he will do. Gladiator in the arena of ideas.
6:23pm | Eddie Whitlock, served in the Virginia National Guard, taught at JSR. Real world experience, serve for a limited amount of time — not professional politicians. Born, raised, and educated here, and operated his business here (and always will). Focus will be on the economy, education, and traditional Virginia values.
6:26pm | Dunnavant to Haley: “Do you still support an individual mandate?”
Haley: Did not write that chapter. Seen the consequences on the individual mandate. Absolutely oppose. Challenge is how to make insurance affordable. Need discard Obamacare and start over, and there are things we can do here in Virginia to help make that happen.
Whitlock: Opposes individual mandate, return to the private sector.
Janis: Obamacare is a problem affecting health care, economy, and workforce. Mandates on employers are creating a disincentive to expand. Oppose bringing Obamacare in via Trojan horse, whether it is Marketplace Virginia or otherwise. Simply the money needed to prop up Obamacare.
Dunnavant: Opposed to the individual mandate. Unduly weighted sense of mandates. Government needs to get out of the health care business.
Haley: Expands on two other principles to keep health care costs low.
6:30pm | Haley to Janis: “State spending outpaced the growth of the economy, with two tax hikes, one of which you supported in 2007. If that’s the experience, why should we expect a different outcome?”
Janis: Two different types of people in the General Assembly, those who are fixing problems and those who are making it worse. Two votes out of 10,000. Only person who has voted to cut taxes is myself. Spent the last 15 years fighting to advance the conservative cause here in Virginia. Others have spent their time in Washington doing research and dig up dirt on others — that’s the Washington insider way. Only one to vote against tax increases and return surpluses, protect 2A and pro-life values.
Dunnavant: Obviously here because we need a fresh, new change in the GA. Health care is an important part of the conversation. Not a career politician.
Whitlock: All taking, but no one is reducing taxes. Private industry needs to be an imperative.
Haley: Trend in spending, trend in debt is unsustainable. Need to reverse this course with bold ideas which I have proposed during my campaign. Clear choice before us on June 9th. Are we going to reverse trend and find a way to lower and eventually eliminate the income tax?
Janis: Only one who has ever done everything else talks about. Play the insider game all you want, but some of us are trying to get in there and find solutions. Not just talking about it, but fighting for it.
6:36pm | Whitlock to Dunnavant: “Contributed to organizations that have supported Obamacare expansion. Why?”
Dunnavant: We all sit on boards that don’t always do what we’d like. You have a membership organization that crafts a message that is meted out by a discussion of all peoples, but I clearly oppose Medicaid expansion, dealing with AMA and encouraged them to step away, I have been a vocal counter voice of any talk of Medicaid expansion at MSV.
Janis: Goes after Dunnavant on the MSV. AMA pushed it at the national level, and MSV took their white lab coats to Richmond. MSV has pushed aggressively for Medicaid, single largest donor, and held you campaign kickoff at their headquarters. How can we possibly trust you?
Whitlock: I think it’s been said.
Haley: We have to limit government so we can expand freedom. All the Obama initiatives pursue is that central authorities know better than we do. Happy to hear all four of us oppose Medicaid expansion. Have to stop this idea that central authorities can make decisions. Have to stop Common Core as well.
Dunnavant: Pushes back against Janis. Opposes Medicaid expansion; talk to anyone about my opposition (applause).
6:40pm | Janis to Whitlock: “Known each other for a long time. Accomplished lawyer, sent many referrals. Outline for us the history of your service to the Henrico GOP and the things you’ve done.”
Whitlock: Doesn’t remember the exact year he joined — was coaching baseball and helping kids. But was asked to join the committee and was glad to do it. Working polls and so forth from 6am to 7pm. Served as parliamentarian, vice precinct chair, and helped ID precinct captains under two successive chairs. Most proud of the conduct during the primary; someone had to put the party back together again. Reached out to Anita Hile and other party chairman, worked together to help get Brat elected.
Dunnavant: Admire Eddie’s service. One of the wonderful things about the community we live in. Sometimes the political thing is intimidating, but in times of great need folks need to step forward. Strong principles, opportunities as a volunteer.
Haley: I don’t know Eddie well, but I like Eddie! Go to the same church at St. Mary’s… same chapter of the Knights of Columbus. Great privilege to run for office. Admire Whitlock and Dunnavant for their service.
Janis: Have a high opinion of Eddie because he has devoted so much to the GOP over the years. When you are involved in the party, you meet a lot of great people and sometimes they are on the opposite side of a campaign. Far too often, folks can become angry, divisive, and hateful. Eddie doesn’t just say that or just believe that, he’s lived that — and he’s a friend.
Whitlock: Like I tell my clients in court, when you’ve won the case, shut up! (laughter)
6:48pm | End of Round 1! Three minute break!
Interesting tidbit: Stosch is sitting with the Dunnavant crowd… not quite an endorsement, but survey says that Stosch — if he had his druthers — would like to see Dunnavant succeed him.
Janis is having a strong showing tonight. Clearly came prepared, and his knowledge of how the General Assembly works shines through.
Tony Pham is present tonight — the man is indeed a rockstar, folks. A legend living among legends.
6:53pm | Round 2!
Haley to Whitlock: “Vision of ending the income tax… you’ve stated opposition. Why?”
Whitlock: Great question, but not what I said. What I am opposed to is destabilizing the economy. If we limit our spending according to my strict test, we will reduce our taxes. Your plan has changed over time. Originally it was phase it out, now it is phase it out over time. If you take out taxes without addressing the spending, the money comes from somewhere else. Right now, the income tax is a direct deduction from your federal tax. If you eliminate it, you could raise taxes elsewhere. Kansas has done it poorly. Some states have done it well… I’ll look at any reduction, but let’s look at spending first. Reduce needs, reduce spending, then you’ll reduce taxes.
Janis: Eddie has a great point — your position keeps changing, Vince. First it was end it, then it was phase it out, now it’s reduce it. Now I’m in favor of ending the income tax, but you keep talking about new ideas — this isn’t a new idea, this is an old idea. We keep the surplus, but use it to drive down the tax? I sponsored a bill like that in 2005. That’s how we get spending under control.
Dunnavant: Admire the ambition. We want to lower taxes and control spending, but how do we do that in a stable way? Not sure… my experience is that A plus B rarely add up to C. There are compounding variables. Great campaign message, but it’s much more complicated than that. Focused on passing on legislation, but not focused on follow up or getting rid of legislation.
Haley: Virginia has dropped in it’s tax attractiveness from 13th to 27th over the last few years. North Carolina is doing this. Did it in 2013 and they are making their income taxes lower and flatter. If they can do it, we can do it.
Whitlock: …and we can do even more if we focus on core services, but we have to focus on spending. Under my plan, taxes will be far lower than yours.
7:01pm | Janis to Dunnavant: “As a Virginia State Senator, what would you do to defend the religious liberties of Virginians?”
Dunnavant: Everything. Virginia started religious freedom. Being a Catholic and seeing the government coerce doctors to perform procedures that violate the conscience of those with strong religious convictions, it’s offensive. Religious freedom doesn’t mean the right not to be offended. I deeply value the dignity of all religious individuals and beings.
Whitlock: Religious freedom was one of the fundamental principles in the first 10 amendments. We don’t need the government creeping into our schools through Common Core, personal lives through health care, crawling into our pizzerias… religious freedom is paramount. Oppose any application of religious requirements for employers or others.
Haley: Quoted his opening statement. We all know that religious liberties are under threat. Obama is a direct strike at the model of the American Revolution. Eight years ago, W&M took the cross down out of the chapel. No party leader asked me to act — I acted, and I helped lead the charge to get the cross back (Wren Chapel).
Janis: When Virginia’s marriage laws first came under attack, we pushed through the marriage amendment. Over 10 years, I voted to protect religious liberties. Protected the rights of chaplains to defend their right to pray. Worked with Griffith to defend prayer in public schools. Proudly helped pass Virginia’s RFRA in 2007.
Dunnavant: Conservative in the medical community. Stood up for rights of the unborn in the medical community. A lot of practice in the arena.
7:07pm | Whitlock to Haley: “Where do you and Newt disagree?”
Haley: BTW, Gingrich is doing a fundraiser for me this Thursday… Newt is a terrific man, learned a lot working with him. Enormous latitude, worked on documentaries on Reagan and John Paul II.
Newt has a penchant of liking certain forms of tax credits to incentivize certain forms of behavior. We have examples of that in Virginia such as the Governor’s Opportunity Fund. We need to get away from that model and focus on driving down the income tax to create economic growth.
Dunnavant: Newt isn’t running in this race… so I’m going to steal a little bit of time and talk about what I didn’t get to talk about in a previous question! (laughter)
We are way too focused on legislation without maintenance. These things need review. We need to focus on meeting metrics and if legislation isn’t meeting the goals, we need to remove them.
Whitlock: Newt opposed Paul Ryan’s budget, worked with Nancy Pelosi on global warming… how are you on those two?
Haley: I didn’t sit on the couch… and Newt called the commercial with Pelosi the dumbest thing he ever did. Eventually, Ryan revised his budget based on Newt’s advice. No new regulations without taking one away.
Janis: Question isn’t where you disagree with Newt: you’ve been a Beltway insider, you ran his presidential campaign. You’ve had to stand with him on amnesty, moon base…. but you’re disavowing yourself on things you supported years earlier. Just recently registered to vote, did not vote in the 2014 primary. Seem to know more about the Beltway than the John Rolfe Parkway.
Haley: You personally told me that you liked my movie on John Paul II, so apparently you like some things I do. Missed the primary because I had to make a work appointment. You had a job to do in the GA and you missed very important votes (referring to the 2007 tax hike). This is a question of trust… can you trust the folks up here to represent you.
7:14pm | Dunnavant to Janis: “If SCOTUS invalidates the subsidies for state exchanges, what’s your plan?”
Janis: How many folks remember the promise that your premiums would go down? Sometimes the way you solve a problem is to stand there and say NO when the solutions make the problem worse. Marketplace Virginia was going to add 400,000 on the rolls without adding a single doctor or nurse. We tell people they have health care, but they don’t have access. Need to replace health care in its entirety. Not just impacting health care, the system, your practice or your patients, it’s impacting the workforce and the economy.
Whitlock: Doesn’t take a doctor to know that Obamacare is bad. Had the best health care in the world, and we gave it away. Problem if it’s struck down, but it’s the federal government’s problem — they need to solve it. Not throwing any more money at the problem.
Haley: Need to get rid of the employer and individual mandates. We should at least be demanding the ability to pay for just the insurance we need.
Dunnavant: Need competition across state lines.
Janis: Obamacare is bad, we all agree on that — but that’s a federal problem. What we can do is not make the problem worse. Whether you call it Marketplace Virginia or “closing the coverage gap” these are all euphemisms for the same thing.
7:20pm | End of Round 2!
Janis continued to have a command of the room, but the majority of the presence is most assuredly pro-Dunnavant. Haley supporters are about 25% of the room.
Of note: Vince Haley pulled down the VCDL-PAC endorsement! And in a completely unrelated circumstance, I am proudly wearing my VCDL sticker tonight.
7:26pm | Whitlock to Janis: “Can you think of a vote or two you took that was a mistake?”
Janis: I would have voted against more of the budgets. Some of the spending in there were easy to vote against, and with a little bit more reflection I would have done differently. Sometimes it’s a well intentioned measure that creates a whole new set of problems. Abuser fees, anti-price gouging was a solution in search of a problem. Don’t pretend to have all the answers, but that’s the beauty of the legislature — finding consensus on good policy.
Dunnavant: I would say that unintended consequences is a phrase that resonates with me (Obamacare experience), and I will say this: I think there is an analytical thinking component that is not as prevalent in the GA that is certainly in the medical community. You have to know a lot before you go into the OR. That’s the kind of thinking and analysis that I bring to the table. It’s tough, but when Janis was in office, the budget grew and taxes went up.
Haley: Over the last 12-14 years, even the Republican Party failed to hold the line on debt, taxes, and spending. We need to change that.
Whitlock: If we get past the “core function” test and it fails, we often don’t have to worry about unintended consequences.
Janis: Dunnavant hit the nail on the head, but why has the budget increased? Medicaid program, which spends $8 billion, and aid to localities K-12. One of the ways you do that? Don’t add 400,000 on the Medicaid rolls in a program we can’t afford already.
7:31pm | Dunnavant to Whitlock: “Most of the GA are lawyers. Does the Senate need another lawyer?”
Whitlock: I don’t believe in categorizing people by race, gender, or profession… (laughter). Been a leader in the National Guard, various community groups. I represent families and business every day, and my clients love me — just like Bill did earlier.
Janis: Patrick Henry was a lawyer, Thomas Jefferson, George Mason, do you know the name of a doctor that signed the Declaration of Independence or the U.S. Constitution? Me neither — but what we don’t need is someone who will push for Marketplace Virginia or Medicaid expansion.
Haley: Not about lawyers and doctors, we’re electing a leader. Need a leader who will go to the State Senate, fight for you, and change things.
Dunnavant: …and I am that leader (applause). So in all seriousness, there’s something to be said for diversity in a conversation… and when you don’t have that diversity, we have something liking. Patient centered care… it’s about the patient, the constituent, serving others.
Whitlock: …and that’s what attorney’s do too — to represent our clients first and best. That’s what I will do as an elected official. What we don’t need is affirmative action, just because you’re a doctor or a businessman.
7:36pm | Janis to Haley: “You’ve mentioned new leadership. You bring Beltway solutions and Beltway attitudes… for or against term limits. You said you were against them then, that elections are the best term limit. You announced last week you were for it. You didn’t mention whether you agreed with Newt on amnesty, the DREAM Act, and open borders. Trying to figure out where it is you’re trying to get to in the first place. Are we hiring Newt’s spokesman or someone who is representing them?”
Haley: I’m my own man. Not a spokesman for Newt Gingrich. A lot of things I agree with him on, and some things I disagree with. On term limits, I was anxious with term limits because sometimes the professional staff becomes the ones with power, and talked about limiting the staff as well so we don’t have entrenched power. Are you taking the term limit pledge?
Janis: No.
Haley: I am. Are you going to?
Janis: No I am not.
Haley: Well when you talk to folks, there’s a voter that asked me, “how do I trust you to not sell me out?” One of the things we can do is term limits. But if you look at my campaign, I talk about what I stand for. That’s how I’ve run my campaign, and that’s why I support rolling back the income tax.
Whitlock: We agree on most major issues. Your job (voters) is to find out where we differ… and who can lead effectively. I led in the National Guard, I led after the 2014 nomination. We have to be statesmen — we can’t be children in the schoolyard. Named last year as one of Virginia’s leaders in the law. Led with the Knights of Columbus. Led a school board. Led for the Diocese of Richmond. Led with Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts. Committed to this community, people know me, and I can lead.
Dunnavant: This is part of the reason why I am getting involved. Conversations to effect change must be goal driven and respectful. Dialogue to create… and that’s how we get things done. That’s how I’ve maintained my practice, my business, a thrift store… leading in collaboration is a unique skill, and it’s one I possess. Everyone gets upset, but it’s a matter of treating others with dignity and respect. Pro-2A and pro-life, both personally and professionally.
Janis: Look — Vince says he’s his own man, talks about the gentleman who says how will I know you won’t sell me out? If you can’t trust someone to stay firm in 90 days on something like term limits, how do you know where he’s taking me? I have a record. Cut taxes, protect the 2A, and defend the unborn. Don’t have to take my own word for it — you can look at my record.
Haley: I’ve taken a pledge. It’s very clear. You’re going to meet two groups of people in Richmond: party leadership, and lobbyists. If you go to Richmond, you’d better vote with the folks back home. Janis has betrayed us on taxes and the 2A.
Janis: Well done is better than well said. At the end of the day, those are just ideas unless you can turn them into legislation, and when your ideas are flipping around in order to win an election, it’s not a good indicator to the sort of leadership needed to push conservative legislation.
7:48pm | Haley to Dunnavant: “Are you going to take a term limit pledge, and how can we restore trust in our public officials?”
Dunnavant: I do believe that actions speak louder than words. As far as taking a pledge, I’m not big on pledges… and individual should be able to follow their principles and be held accountable for it. Pledges are gimmicks for political forums. Don’t need a pledge to be dignified and be trustworthy. I support term limits, but I will be unlikely to take any pledge. As far as restoring trust in leadership, we should start with trusting each other . People are very distrustful, people are very negative. My performance will speak for itself.
Whitlock: Advocated for citizen leaders not professional politicians. I would not serve more than two terms, because I believe leaders should go, lend their experience, then go home. That’s what General Washington did… and it held well up until FDR. Then I will go home.
Janis: People are sovereign. For 10 years every time I approached re-election, I approached it as a job performance review and made the case for why your performance over the last term merited why you should go back. Pledges are all stunts under the pretense of a campaign. But I would be remiss to say that I would substitute my judgement for their judgement in an election. I agree with Vince Haley 1.0….
Haley: Wren Chapel… suitability of the cross there, we won. Forced the Congress to end their 28 year moratorium on offshore drilling. Campaigning now to end the energy tax.
Dunnavant: Not much to add… we’re all looking for leadership, quality leadership, sincere leadership. No need to add more titles to my name. I am stepping forward to serve.
7:53pm | End of Round 3! Closing Statements!
Haley: Our liberties and opportunities are being assaulted. Must fight back against Richmond and Washington. State legislatures are our last line of defense. With a new generation of leadership, I respectfully ask for your vote on June 9th.
Dunnavant: Small business owner, entrepreneur, community leader and volunteer. Problem sovler and can engage others. Something fresh and new as your next State Senator.
Janis: Thank you for making the forum available to us John. The people are sovereign. Ultimately, you have to decide who you trust to hire as your next state senator. I’m the only one who can say I voted to protect the unborn, 2A, and cut taxes. You don’t have to believe me, you can just look at my voting record. VSHL scored me 100% on my pro-life voting record. Ask your friends and neighbors in western Hanover and western Henrico whether you can trust me. I’m the only one here with a record. Ask for your support.
Whitlock: Thank you again as well. A candidate’s record of service best demonstrates how he or she will represent you. Unlike Bill, I don’t have the endorsements of Delegate Jimmie Massie or any of the other insiders… even if everyone up here endorses me (Dunnavant: We love you, Eddie!). But you can count on me to bring people together. We have a chance at losing the Virginia Senate… but we do have a chance to fight for a conservative candidate. If you believe in family values, school choice, religious freedom, economic freedom, experienced leaders and not professional politicians, then I am your candidate and I ask for your vote.
8:00pm | John Fredericks wraps it up!
So initial thoughts. Bill Janis comported himself very well. It was clear he was the candidate the others intended to beat. Vince Haley took square aim and make certain that the race was seen and felt to be between himself and Janis.
The crowd, however, is firmly behind Dunnavant. No question that Stosch has picked a horse in this race.
…and as for Eddie Whitlock, well everyone love Eddie.
More analysis tomorrow AM on the John Frederick show!
