UPDATE: The Rise and Fall (and Rise?) of Jamie RadtkeFeaturedPolitics

Erick Erickson has walked away.

After this incident, perhaps I was a bit too vocal I’d not actually be supporting her campaign. I assume this act of self destruction in front of 400 attendees of the RedState Gathering is why Jamie Radtke’s campaign decided to orchestrate a hit job on me in the Politico after I both endorsed her campaign and allowed her to speak at my event.

Over the past number of months we have fronted multiple posts to the front page by Jamie Radtke and others touting her candidacy. I’ve made clear repeatedly that I would not be supporting George Allen because, while he will fight the Democrats, I see no indication he’ll ever fight Mitch McConnell.

In any event, the Radtke campaign clearly was not getting traction and they and their proxies began incessantly harassing me to write about her campaign and do what I did for Marco Rubio and Mike Lee.

I didn’t want to be the bad guy or burn a bridge needlessly, so instead of saying I wouldn’t because the campaign sucked and was going nowhere or that I would wait and keep being pestered with “now will you do it”, I told them I could not. It seemed at the time to be the easiest way out.

I was certainly wrong.

…and Erickson’s heartfelt response to Radtke’s fumbling speech at The Gathering was cued… by this:

Ouch.

Harassment by proxies has been a hallmark of the Radtke campaign, an effort that has been hobbled by well-intentioned but inexperienced staff — or worse, the more malicious who see a paycheck by riding and burning Jamie’s reputation for every dime that can be squeezed out of it.  Ergo, when Erickson didn’t play ball… this was the Politico hit piece:

The endorsement, Radtke campaign manager Carter Wrenn said, gave the campaign a boost. But soon, he noticed that RedState wasn’t giving Radtke’s campaign much attention.

Way to treat your friends.  See what I mean by a poorly run campaign?

Jamie Radtke is a good and dear friend, and a veteran of many a political battle for conservatives in Virginia.  This is not the first defection from the Radtke coalition over the course of the past few months.  The Tea Party has split down the middle, social conservatives are on the outs, key supporters are folding, the money simply has not materialized…

Perhaps it is time to concede the field and apply talents elsewhere?

Erickson feels burned, and for good reason…. and sadly, not because of anything Jamie Radtke directly did.  But he’s not the only one, and there’s plenty of evidence to show that Jamie’s good name has been misappropriated and abused.  So yes… when I speak of this race, I get angry about it, because Jamie deserves a hell of a lot better.

For Radtke 2012, it’s time to fold the hand, walk away from the poker table, and fight another battle in the war for the soul of America.  There’s plenty more to be done… just not in the U.S. Senate (for now, anyway).

UPDATE: …and who’s the tool that inspired the Politico story?  Dan Reihl… not exactly the biggest fish in the pond, but yeah… this Dan Riehl:

I’m guessing Dan latched on my emailing our mutual friends, convinced himself I wanted to get him fired instead of just calmed down, and decided to go all junior high cat fight on RedState and me. While I was out of town this past weekend a war of words on Twitter ensued with Riehl suggesting our founder, Josh Trevino, had sex with sheep, and the inevitable back and forth.

I can now confirm Dan Riehl is the original source to the Politico regarding the Radtke story.

Well played, Dan. Well played. The Radtke campaign owes you big time.

Sometimes the collective forces of the internet act like junior high school girls.

Great observation on the “junior high school girls” slam on the more vehement and radical of Radtke’s supporters.  Namely because they are using her to stab Allen in the face — not working to get Jamie elected.  Again… abusing Jamie’s reputation for nefarious ends…

Erickson is still very clear that he has no intention of supporting former Governor George Allen.  Which makes the Radtke comments below odder still.  Erickson doesn’t disagree with them regarding Allen.  Erickson no longer believes that Radtke can do the job.  Interesting…

UPDATE x2: Radtke supporters are insisting there is video of the speech.  Since Radtke campaign staff should have recorded this speech (after all, this was at the RedState Gathering and an important campaign diversion), then we will post the video the moment it is released.  Please feel free to post the YouTube link in the comments section.

UPDATE X3: So no video is being produced by either RedState or the Radtke campaign… but the leftosphere is just giddy with the prospect of tearing down RedState once and for all.  Fron the Atlantic Wire:

We asked Politico’s Ben Smith if Riehl had been his original source and, predictably, he declined to comment. Riehl also declined to say if he provided Smith with any information saying “this isnt my fight and im just watching. I have nothing to say about anything one way or another.” Still, it’s clear Erickson is somewhat furious with Riehl. The signoff on his latest post accuses the blogger of acting like “junior high school girls”

For his part, Riehl wasn’t quite ready to throw a punch back. “I don’t follow RedState or watch CNN,” he tells The Atlantic Wire. Looks like things in the righty blogosphere are getting personal!

…as designed to do so by the Politico piece.  Not only does the dirty laundry in the Radtke campaign get aired, but now we get to have a national level discussion on how RedState is financed.  Brilliant!

UPDATE x4:  Guess some folks think we’re being too harsh on Jamie… and other folks?  Well, I’ll let the Richmond Tea Party’s Sara James spell it out:

Jamie Radtke is the candidate. She has the final say in what supporters she very actively courts, she has the final say about who manages and plans her campaign.   She has the final say in who she shares updated campaign info with in order for them to work the blogs on her behalf.   They’re called “surrogates” – and a candidate should choose them wisely.

If she hasn’t, well, that tells you something…… that  many of us already know. She is not anywhere near ready to be a US Senator.  The fact that she even thinks she is is, is what should scare people most of all.

A victim, she is not. If she is listening to campaign managers and high priced consultants who tell her they can get her elected, that they can make her a “rising star” in the movement, that they will get her gigs with all the big radio stars or talking head shows and through their contacts, all the right people will support her, and the money will come   – it is because she thinks highly enough of herself to believe them.  That’s not being a victim, that is being narcissistic.

Ouch.

Extra points for the Scarlett and “RhettState” lines, though.

UPDATE x5:  Dan Riehl sheds some light on what happened:

In addition to that, for the first time ever, a GOP Presidential candidate had recently announced his Presidential campaign at the very same venue. There is no reason to suspect Radkte had prepared remarks, no reason to assume she had any preparation. And now, under those circumstances, a bunch of RedState readers led by its editor have decided to pronounce her a rambling drunk. I see nothing funny in that, nor annything the least bit helpful as a reflection of what it means to be a proud conservative. Frankly, it disgusts me. I stopped reading RS last week after some previous issues. After today, I am more than convinced I made the right decision. (emphasis added)

So my original suspicions were right.  Not drunk… but rather, an off-the-cuff speech.

Riehl is incorrect about the lack of preparation, as Radtke’s campaign had been trumpeting her introduction of the Palin film for some time. A poorly-delivered extemporaneous speech united with elevated expectations and poor campaign field work is the best explanation for what happened.

UPDATE x6:  Woah!  Looks like Radkte just unleashed the lawyers

Jamie Radtke tells Scott Conroy of Real Clear Politics that she feels it is libelous for observers of her speech to say she was drunk as she says she was not drinking.

Okay.

Jamie Radtke says she was not drinking and I will believe her.

That, friends, makes reports of her performance at the RedState Gathering even more appalling.

Ryan Nobles over at NBC 12 has the scoop:

MT- @RealClearScott#VASen cand. J Radtke’s lawyer to issue letter to Erick Erickson demanding “immediate retraction”: http://bit.ly/oky221

Dan Reihl’s account of a rambling but not drunken speech seems to be panning out.  Which is altogether a sideshow of the RedState-Radtke drama, but nonetheless an interesting development if Team Radtke has indeed lawyered up.

Erickson has updated his post… but is not removing the comments from spectators in the crowd who, indeed, claim she was “drunk” during her speech.

Junior high school, indeed.

UPDATE x7:  Radtke for Senate issued a campaign statement today.  The letter from legal counsel can be viewed here.

“Erick’s blog goes beyond the pale,” Radtke stated. “He crossed the line by publishing complete falsehoods. Now, it is his responsibility to admit he did wrong, set the record straight and apologize – and that is what I am asking Erick to do.

“This kind of scurrilous behavior and treatment has been repeatedly carried out on tea party leaders and conservative candidates who dare challenge the good ‘ole boy Washington Establishment. This attempt by the Washington Establishment to destroy the tea party and their candidates must stop. Enough is enough.

Unfortunately for Radtke, opinions of her speech aren’t “defamatory” in the slightest.  They’re opinion.  Protected by this.

Jamie’s press release?  Fantastic.  Well played.

The legal option?  Dense as a ton of bricks.  What ever happened to the Jeffersonian dictum?

“Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.”

Wincing a bit here.  Does the Tea Party truly intend to take on the largest conservative blog in America?  They have to know that — however false the claims might have been — they were opinions from the crowd and repeatable… and going after the First Amendment in order to score a few political points?  All the while, the MSM is circling like buzzards.

But taking on RedState?  The blog that made Marco Rubio and pushed the 2010 takeover?

Gotta be smarter than this.  Good press release… bad strategy.

UPDATE x8:  The Washington Post’s Ben Pershing comes out with an amazingly well-balanced look (dare I use the word… reporting?!) at the whole “junior high school” spat — and how this developed:

But perhaps an endorsement wasn’t good enough. On Wednesday,Politico’s Ben Smith reported on an e-mail from Erickson to the Radtke campaign in response to a request from Radtke that she be allowed to speak at RedState’s convention, which happened in mid-August.

“My bosses are huge Allen friends, not just fans. They are socially connected,” Erickson wrote in the message, which was sent to Politico by Radtke’s campaign manager. “So I’m having to tread carefully in this. Happy to help, but it’s got me in a difficult position. So please come and let me introduce you to people, but just understand that I have to be delicate for now.”

Erickson’s “bosses” are the executives who run conservative Eagle Publishing, which owns RedState. In his own response to Smith’s queries, Erickson said Eagle officials “asked [that Erickson] go slower in evaluating that race instead of diving in head first.”

“It was not a commandment or order, but out of respect to the long-term relationship George Allen has with Eagle, I thought it was a reasonable request; I was happy to accommodate.”

A clearer picture is starting to emerge here.

Erickson endorsed, but Radtke’s campaign wanted more.  When Erickson explained how more could not be given, but he was happy to accommodate.  Which is when Radtke’s political consultants then turned up the heat after a disastrous speech and — indeed — executed their their threats to burn Erickson to the ground.

In short, when Erickson tried to explain that he was walking a tightrope, Radtke’s campaign staff punched him in the face.

This is not looking good for Radtke’s campaign consultants, particularly for Carter Wrenn.

  • Red Baron

    Wow you said alot that needed saying.

  • https://www.facebook.com/pages/Draft-Bob-McDonnell-for-President-in-2012/182559595128064 James “turbo” Cohen

    Shaun Kenney for Campaign manager!

  • redstate fan

    I was at the redstate gathering and heard Ms. Radtke speak, if you can call her incoherent rambling on and on and on, speaking. She wasted an opportunity to wow a crowd of like-minded conservatives.

  • Mike Barrett

    So Shawn, if the tea party republicans have split and some have left, what’s left? If it is true that the Party has sold its soul to the far right, and is at war with reality, what does the republican party stand for today? The moderate, business oriented republicans I am pleased to associate with and call my friends would not be caught dead at a meetingh of the current rendition of the Party. Fiscal conservatism, a traditional hallmark of the Party, has been delinked from fiscal responsibility as evidenced by the eight so called candidates who are still running based on the mirage that extreme budget cuts without revenue increases will put this nation back into recession. So if the republican party is at war with itself, what will be the outcome?

  • Eric McGrane

    Another day, ANOTHER Bearing Drift hit piece on Radtke.

    A question for the responsible author: Was Radtke’s campaign contacted for commentary before simply parroting RedState’s unfounded assertions? OF COURSE not.

    Far better (when your agenda is to destroy Radtke) to copy/paste those assertions, and then call for Radtke’s campaign to fold up and go home. How convenient!

    When the factual details come out about this “story”, Bearing Drift will end up with egg on its face and with its credibility damaged. You’d think that a responsible political blog would do even the most rudimentary fact-checking before posting…but I guess this is asking too much.

  • http://bearingdrift.com J.R. Hoeft

    Mike,
    Crocodile tears. When conservatives want your advice, we’ll ask for it. Don’t hold your breath.

    Shaun,
    Well written post. What is happening with Jamie is unconscionable. She’s a wonderful conservative who is being portrayed in a horribly negative light. There’s no reason for it.

    That being said, I think the whole U.S. Senate field needs to take a good look as to whether or not they have sustainable campaigns, or if they are just trying to get attention.

    Organizing for America is already in Virginia and already prepared to support the leftist Obama-Kaine agenda.

    Conservatives have to get organized and united in a hurry to counter what will already be a difficult campaign in Virginia in 2012.

  • http://bearingdrift.com J.R. Hoeft

    @Eric – ok, what’s the truth?

  • http://vateapartyalliance.org Karen Miner Hurd

    Jamie’s campaign losing traction?

    If it’s losing traction, then why the lies about public drunkenness from a woman who seldom drinks (and almost never at public functions)? If she’s yesterday’s news, why such a spectacular disavowing of one’s own endorsement?

    And if her campaign is no big deal, why the character attacks?

    This incident reveals more about the the behind the scenes world of the conservative media and its ties to the GOP establishment,then it does about the Radtke campaign.

    If something’s not important it gets ignored, not headlines.

    And since “red state fan” was an eyewitness, to such a god-awful speech, why not post under your real name? What are YOU hiding?

    The truth- http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0811/Publishers_social_ties_pushed_RedState_toward_Allen.html

  • Mike Barrett

    That’s OK, J.R., but I didn’t offer advice, I just wanted to know where this is going. I didn’t know my questions would be so hard to answer.

  • Happy Days

    Uh oh Karen! It’s those darn Establishment Pirates again!! Yo-HO, me hearties! Ya-HAR! AARGH, Mateys. Aye, Shiver me timbers! You be su-part’in Gee-orge Allen, er else ye walk the plank! — and it’s to Davey Jones locker with ye!

    Darn establishment…Always messing up play time.

  • http://www.shaunkenney.com Shaun Kenney

    @Mike –

    Not sure this is an instance of the GOP “at war” with itself, but rather a manifestation of the libertarian split with the GOP.

    For instance, the Tea Party when Santelli’s masterful rant first kicked it off was a reform movement. People fed up with the way things had been going and desperately looking for a better way.

    That was a movement I was proud to be a part of.

    …until the social conservatives got kicked out.
    …and the fiscal Reaganites got kicked out too.
    …and “objectivism” became the philosophical handshake.
    …and the shriller the voice, the more “authentic” you were.
    …and everyone who fought back was attacked as either “establishment” hacks or worse.

    In short, a handful pushed away the conservative majority. I can’t even say in good conscience that the Tea Party is a “conservative” movement anymore.

    So where is the GOP headed? Away from Obamacare and the progressives, but I’m not entirely certain that there is a consensus who can reforge “the grand coalition” just yet. That requires the right combination of leadership, statesmanship, resources, and determination to see a thing through.

    Unfortunately… not only do the kleptocrats within misunderstand their license for liberty, the kleptocrats outside continue to want to sponge off the producers of this world for the sake of the consumers… government bureaucrats and the legions benefiting from government spending just waiting in line feeling like they are some modern day Oliver Twist.

    Where does it end? I don’t know. What sort of GOP emerges? A more business-friendly one… but whether that means we have a government working in favor of the corporations who have already squeezed the public trust enough, or whether we have one working for the working class entrepreneur is something to be determined.

    Hoping for the latter; fearing we may arrive at the former.

  • http://bearingdrift.com J.R. Hoeft

    Shaun – why do you humor him?

    Mike – your questions are not hard to answer, I just find spending the time on you to be a worthless exercise.

  • Mike Barrett

    Yes Shaun, I would have to agree that growing corporate power can in and of itself be a threat to the U.S., particularly to the degree that it can buy public policy that suits its interests. I don’t think most Americans want to shake down corporations, but they do want them to pay their fair share. Thanks for your cogent response.

  • http://www.shaunkenney.com Shaun Kenney

    @Jim –

    I dunno… my Jeffersonian optimism in mankind, perhaps? :)

    @Mike –

    I do think there are many on the left who would shake down *anyone* or anything to pay for what benefits them directly… or others indirectly.

    Some of them call themselves Tea Partiers… they just don’t realize they are leftists, is all. But the philosophy is the same. Kleptocracy… we’ll keep reminding folks. :)

  • Lee Talley

    @Karen the paranoid act is getting old. Go home the tea is cold and your message is stale.

  • http://www.jsnotes.com Jason Kenney

    This strikes me as Radtke’s camp lashing out at Erickson for not singing her praises loud or often enough. How is that any different than editorial demands put on him by, well, the guys that sign his paycheck?

    Beyond that, is any other blogger or grassroots individual who backs Radtke then obligated to shout her name from the hilltops at all times or they’ll destroy you personally? No thank you.

    Jamie’s a great person, but her staff are bullies. I feel terrible that they’ve done her such a disservice this cycle.

  • Red Baron

    Maybe Radtke isn’t losing traction maybe she just never had any traction to being with.For the Tea party to talk about the Government paying its bills and being fiscally responsible they sure are behind a candidate who sure isn’t doing it.Radtke owes more money than she has on hand.

  • https://www.facebook.com/pages/Draft-Bob-McDonnell-for-President-in-2012/182559595128064 James “turbo” Cohen

    Poor Eric.. The bosses must have chewed him out.. or the bosses never intended for Red State to be anything but a tool for the establishment? Who owns Red State? Where does the money come from? Follow the money.

  • rtwingtroll

    I still say you are being paid directly or indirectly by Allen, Shaun.

    But I don’t think Radtke is running a good campaign.

    And I hope someone will, because Gumpuss Allen should not go back to Washington. Period.

    Ciao.

  • Amy Kingery

    Sounds to me like Eric is busted and now is crying foul.

  • Amy Kingery

    So Eric, did you say that you were being pressured or not?

  • Reid Greenmun

    Jamie still has my support – and the support of many TEA Party Conservatives. You see, we don’t really care what the Pundit Class does to try to manipulate the election process, we actually care about hiring the right people to represent us in our government.

    @ Mike, you always make me laugh – Republican friends you hang out with , ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, of Man! THAT was a real gut buster.

    @ Karen, gee … the old guard just hates the fact that their RINO lov’in ways just don’t cut it anymore : )

  • https://www.facebook.com/pages/Draft-Bob-McDonnell-for-President-in-2012/182559595128064 James “turbo” Cohen

    Red State or.. RINO STATE

    The story does not appear to be Jamie or Eric. The story is the usual good ole boy establishment helping their good ole buddy George Allen. Red State is a tool? Shocker ey. This is so much like what Obama and his ilk do to make news. So Alinsky is alive and reporting and journalism is dead over at Red State. They lost their realness. Red State is outted as a phony and anyone who identifies with conservative values owes it to themselves to learn the facts of this abuse of readers trust.

    Red State is owned by establishment good ole boys. You outted yourselves as Allen buddys, not trusted conservative media..

    So, did you RS owners like getting caught in the act of giving Allen a BJ? Like the taste? Oh, can’t stand the taste huh? That happens sometimes when you crawl around on your knees. Here is a clean hanky, now go clean yourself up.. I don’t want it back. Disgusting huh.. just like you planned.

  • Samuel Gilleran

    If RedState isn’t conservative enough for you, nothing’s going to be conservative enough for you.

  • https://www.facebook.com/pages/Draft-Bob-McDonnell-for-President-in-2012/182559595128064 James “turbo” Cohen

    Samuel, Red State is definitely conservative.. and maybe a bit sexist. Establishment conservative. I bet conservatives have a video to back up the BS claims too. I guess it is conservative to beat the women down which is an emerging pattern some see. Yeah thats right I said it. Knock those imperfect bitches & ho’s down a notch and let em walk barefoot seems to be the tome coming from many of you phony conservatives. WTF is conservative to you bud?

    As of now, expecting to read unbiased conservative journalism at Rino State is like expecting Fox to hire LOlberman to replace Hannity and to make up for the past with Obama. Makes no sense does it Sam.

  • Reid Greenmun

    “Red State is definitely conservative.. and maybe a bit sexist.”

    Interesting observation. I hadn’t considered that aspect before. I’m going to have to ponder that some more.

    Thanks James.

  • Whit

    hmmm… seems the pundit/consultant/establishment class has clearly moved from its strategy of ignoring Jamie into an attack phase… as another commentator alluded to, strange behavior indeed regarding an entity that supposedly is irrelevant.

  • Samuel Gilleran

    “Red State is definitely conservative.. and maybe a bit sexist.”

    Is there any actual evidence of this, or is this simply based on Erickson’s revocation of his endorsement of Jamie Radtke? Doesn’t it stand to reason that if Erickson/RedState were actually sexist, they wouldn’t have endorsed her in the first place? Oh wait, that doesn’t fit your narrative.

    “Knock those imperfect bitches & ho’s down a notch and let em walk barefoot seems to be the tome coming from many of you phony conservatives.”

    I’ll be waiting on the retraction for calling me a sexist (and a phony conservative, which is less important), but I don’t expect it.

  • https://www.facebook.com/pages/Draft-Bob-McDonnell-for-President-in-2012/182559595128064 James “turbo” Cohen

    Name the women they bitch slapped.. I dare ya. Are you man enough to call em out on this?

    Michele Bachmann, Palin.. others they are treated to old school beat downs unlike their male counterparts.. it is a pattern.. studying their archives now..

  • Reid Greenmun

    Wow, this discussion took an interesting turn … we all might actually learn something here that wasn’t intended to be learned. Nice job James!

  • http://www.shaunkenney.com Shaun Kenney

    @rtwingtroll –

    You know, if I’m going to keep being accused of being on the Allen payroll, at some point it’s probably worth sticking my hand out and trying to collect a paycheck, eh? :)

    Radtke in and of herself is doing fine. Carter Wrenn is spending her into the dirt.

    @Turbo —

    RedState beat up on Bachmann? Not cool…

  • Samuel Gilleran

    You’re the alleging party, Turbo, therefore you get to produce links.

    Meanwhile, I’ll present this: “It’s a direct and blunt approach and the ideas are the essence of traditional, Conservative economic policy. If you like meat-and-potatoes, limited government conservatism this should appeal. If you believe lower corporate taxes, coupled with regulatory relief will solve a lot of America’s unemployment problems, Michele Bachmann’s economic views are 180 degrees different than what the government is trying right now.”
    From RedState’s front page: http://www.redstate.com/repair_man_jack/2011/08/22/the-dismal-science-%E2%80%93-part-1-of-3-michele-bachmann-on-jobs-and-the-economy/

    Hardly an “old school beat down,” is it?

  • Temporary

    Shaun wrote, “…until the social conservatives got kicked out.”

    Nobody kicked the social conservatives out of the TEA party, people in the TEA party just made it clear that they weren’t going to let social conservatives co-opt the movement for their own purposes. People can have whatever views on abortion (or religion, or ice cream) that they want, the TEA party just isn’t the place for it. It isn’t the Taxed Enough Already AND PRO LIFE party. Go to the Republican soirées if you want to chat about that stuff, you’ll see plenty of the same people there.

    Shaun wrote, “…and the fiscal Reaganites got kicked out too.”

    Uhh, some of those would be Blue Dog Democrats Shaun, and I know there are a lot of TEA party people who have been very interested in courting that group. It is a challenge when Progressives and Republicans are both trying to link the TEA party with social conservative issues that scare those Democrats and Independents off.

    Shaun wrote, “…and “objectivism” became the philosophical handshake.”

    The TEA party is obviously not all Libertarians, but I think it is fair to say that Classical Liberalism is at the heart of the fiscal conservative cause.

    Shaun wrote, “…and the shriller the voice, the more “authentic” you were.”

    ???

    Shaun wrote, “…and everyone who fought back was attacked as either “establishment” hacks or worse.”

    There are a lot of Republicans out there who are pretty pissed that they haven’t been able to get the TEA party to lock step with them. One of the big reasons for the differences is that the Republican leadership likes spending huge piles of money, even Reagan was responsible for huge deficits. For too long the Republican party has talked the talk but hasn’t walked the walk. I think the TEA party wants to see real cuts, a real balanced budget, etc, and to paraphrase Homer Banks, “If that’s wrong, I don’t wanna be right”. Republicans can get all indignant after they come through with the goods, until then its just a bunch of Republican candidates saying “honest, we’ve found religion”, puffy white clouds, and unicorns.

  • http://www.shaunkenney.com Shaun Kenney

    Believe me, Temp — I don’t believe the “jailhouse Jesus” conversions either, but consider this — only 8 members of the House held firm against a debt ceiling increase.

    Which means the overwhelming majority of the U.S. House of Representatives — Democrats and Republicans alike — voted to continue spending our national inheritance.

    Now… elections? They are won with 50%+1 of the vote.

    I ask you (and others): Is today’s Tea Party movement building that coalition? Or are they simply dragging the coalition to the right… and leaving bits and pieces behind?

  • Eric McGrane

    @Shaun: perhaps the tea party could do a better job of “building that coalition” if we weren’t warding off salvos on all fronts. “Its the tea party’s fault” is now a very convenient narrative for both the left AND some on the right. If you don’t think that “tea party-ness” is seen a threat to the power base in BOTH parties, you haven’t been paying attention.

    And finally, your comment is a curious one….that “dragging the coalition to the right” is seemingly a bad thing (if I understand you correctly). I’d offer that the country has moved VASTLY left, and all the tea party is doing is working to move it back closer to the center. Your mileage may vary.

  • http://www.shaunkenney.com Shaun Kenney

    @Eric –

    Re-read what you wrote. Carefully.

    Now consider whether your presumptions, your libertarian leanings, and your remarks would win a convert… or confirm their suspicions.

    …and let it sit for a morning/afternoon before you respond back.

  • https://www.facebook.com/pages/Draft-Bob-McDonnell-for-President-in-2012/182559595128064 James “turbo” Cohen

    Red State might as well have been the one saying “The Tea Party”, er, Jamie in this case, “can go straight to hell”.. Eat cake Maxine.

    Putting women in their place on Red State might be good for establishment laughs but so is standing in front of a camera calling an indian macaca.. Why would anyone assault a conservative like Jamie Radtke? What are their motivations for fabricating lies about Jamie Radtke’s character? Who are the people behind the curtain at Red State? Is Red State a well disguised tool for GOP establishment propaganda?

  • Sandy

    For the Radtke supporters who are demanding that a video be released, to prove the charges against Radtke that her speech was so awful, think about that for a minute. There are not just a few people who attended the RS gathering that said her speech was “painful” and “cringe inducing”, there are many who were there and witnessed it. If there was a video, and it was released on RS or anywhere else, and the speech was as bad as claimed, wouldn’t that do even more harm to Radtke?

    Also, Erick Erickson never posted the first article, or said the first bad thing about Radtke, until he was attacked by the Radtke people via a Politico hit piece. Dan Riehl started the whole debacle, and threatened Erickson that he would burn him, and the RedState site to the ground, that he would destroy him. Why?

    This year’s RS gathering had many more bloggers and press because of the Perry announcement at the event. Reihl was not invited, and got his panties in a real bunch over it. Right after Perry’s announcement, Riehl posted an article on his site claiming that Perry’s roll out was a disaster. He liked Perry’s speech, but thought his choice of venue was a terrible mistake on Perry’s part.

    I have no idea what Riehl’s connection may be with Radtke, or if there even is one. It may just be that he used the Radtke story to serve his own personal vendetta against Erickson. The Radtke people obviously jumped at the chance, because Erickson wasn’t shilling for their candidate, beyond his original endorsement of her way back many months ago, shortly after she announced. Radtke is personally responsible for everything her staff does or does not do. In light of the fact that Radtke has run a very negative campaign, with seemingly the goal goal to do nothing more than attack Allen, over and over, it would not be surprising that she signed off on the Erickson hit piece, and it came back to bite her. I wouldn’t be a bit surprised to learn that Radtke knows how badly she did at RS, and isn’t trying to get out in front of it, and play the victim, and point the finger of blame at anyone but herself. She’s not up to prime time for sure.

  • Steve Vaughan

    From the outside:

    It looked like the Allen candidacy might have been vulnerable to a challenge from the right this year…after all early polling only showed him with the support of about 60% of the GOP, meaning there was some vulnerabilty there. AFter all, he lost the seat, which was his for the losing in 2006.

    That would have required tha thte anti-Allen Republicans got behind one candidate (the best choice as far as record and name recognition probably being Del. Bob Marshall) early. That candidate would have had to run a flawless campaign to seriously challenge Allen.

    But instead, we had a mulitiplicity of “Tea Party” candidates. The most prominent of them, Ms. Radke, has run far from a flawless campaign.

    And so, George Allen is the GOP nominee for U.S. Senate in 2012.

    At this point, there isn’t anything anyone can do to change that. Further efforts probably just weaken the GOP for 2012.

  • Eric McGrane

    @Shaun:

    Accuracy is important. In your “Update #4 you incorrectly cite Sara James as being with the Richmond Tea Party. She is *not* with Richmond Tea Party. In fact, you have readily avaialble the contact info for people *actually with* the Richmond Tea Party, if you decided to tighten up your blogging a bit and be factual.

  • http://www.shaunkenney.com Shaun Kenney

    @Eric –

    *sigh*

    So not only did you not take anything to heart, you didn’t even bother reading what was here?

    Case proven.

    Sara James has it on her website that she was a member of the Richmond Tea Party — and unless the RTP guys have a Gestapo running around scrubbing the membership rosters, I’d have to say that’s pretty heavy handed of you, Eric. If you have beef with that (or with how she was drummed out — I really don’t know or care about the junior high drama) then take it up with someone else.

    Further… why isn’t she “Tea Party” material again?

  • Eric McGrane

    @Shaun:

    Ahhh….doubling down on playing games. Are you now positing that you didnt mean to write Sara’s comments as coming from someone in the RTP organizational structure? The dishonesty is staggering. Here’s a clue:

    I’m a member of VCDL (Virginia Citizens Defense League). But you can’t write “VCDL’s Eric McGrane states…”. Words have meaning. You wrote an incorrect citation, and are now trying to cover for that by deflecting into questions like “Why isn’t she Tea Party material”? Man up, admit your mistake. It doesnt have to be this hard.

  • Mike Barrett

    Actually, my assessment is that many of the tea party members are part of the disenfranchised middle class that has been ripped apart by global economic forces, by the rise of corporate power, and by the debacle created by the Bush Presidency. Now, the republican party’s protection of the super rich and wealty corporations is anathema to their cause. In a sense, they belong much more in the democratic party, except for one thing; that is, timinig. Most independents and moderates in the democratic accept the need for budget cuts, for entitlement reform, for tax reform, and for increases in tax revenue, but they acknowledge that meat ax cuts, right now, will snuff out the recovery and lead to greater loss of jobs and a depressed economy. Since they have been coopted and treated so poorly in the republican party, if they can get their anger under control, and look at their situation rationally, they will realize just how bad they have been treated where they chose to go, and perhaps by their leaders who have tried to take personal advantage.

  • http://www.shaunkenney.com Shaun Kenney

    @Eric –

    If you are a member of the VCDL, then you can write “the VCDL’s Eric McGrane states…” — of course. Are you not a member?

    I hope you are. I think my membership is still current… I should check.

    So no mistakes, and no cover-up. But I am curious — are you categorically stating that Sara James has no connection to the RTP at all? Did not help with the convention? I mean — I know y’all threw her under the bus, but I wouldn’t think things were so bad that you’d just up and disown her.

    …which goes back to — and ironically, validates — my Tea Party infighting comments (social conservatives, objectivists, shrill voices, etc.) above. Thanks for that, Eric.

  • Eric McGrane

    @Shaun…tsk, tsk….now continued deflection.

    No, Sara James did not help with the convention. She has not been a part of RTP organizational structure for about a year now.

    See? You CAN ask questions before making assertions. And no one is throwing her under the bus…YOU and you alone decided to bring her into discussion. I’m simply stating facts. Yes, those pesky things that responsible bloggers determine before reporting. But please, continue.

  • http://www.shaunkenney.com Shaun Kenney

    It’s not deflection — you just don’t like getting caught in mistruths, is all.

    Sara James *did not* help with the convention? That’ll be news to her and a lot of other folks… but who am I? I’ll let you call Sara a liar on your own.

  • rtwingtroll

    Steve Vaughn and other centerist-pinko Allenites:

    There is PLENTY of time for a challenger to catch wind and soar above the bloated, big-spending history of George Allen.

    It happened to Mike Castle in only three (3!) weeks (weeks!).

    So ha, ha, it ain’t over til the fat pol sings … and GA looks a tad portly nowadays (and hair-dyed too, ick).

    Radtke does appear a weak candidate tho, I agree.

    Cheerio

  • Tim J

    Mike, what the hell did you write that has anything to do with anything in this thread? Go back to attacking Grover who is your black angel and Satan incarnate on earth.

  • Mike Barrett

    Well Tim J, simply don’t bother yourself to read what I post. But in this case, I asked some questions about the republican party post the tea party, and Shaun responded, and J.R. wrote a similar condemnation of my participation, then Temporary got involved, and frankly, I learned quite a bit about the internal divisions facing republicans because of their swing to the extreme right. But don’t bother yourself with any of that.

  • https://www.facebook.com/pages/Draft-Bob-McDonnell-for-President-in-2012/182559595128064 James “turbo” Cohen
  • http://tidewaterliberty.com Britt Howard

    So,………..now she wasn’t drunk? Just a fumbled delivery? Like Allen or any other candidate hasn’t had an imperfect speech or some quoted Allen lackeys didn’t just reveal their exaggerated bias – that happens everywhere and from all sides.

    I can’t wait for the footage on youtube. Cuz, we have all seen footage of eloquent George Allen time and again. I saw a macaca moment on youtube. I saw him talking about his daughter’s “diminished” opportunities here on BD etc. etc.

    Where is the tape of drunken Jamie Radtke?

    Oh, yeah……now she wasn’t drunk.

    So much for integrity and effort to reflect the facts as they are. The first amendment doesn’t protect your credibility or reputation. That damage is brought on by the speaker themselves.

  • http://www.shaunkenney.com Shaun Kenney

    Truth be told, Britt — Erickson hasn’t taken down any of the audience impressions of the speech. And the Radtke campaign isn’t releasing any video, either.

    Seems like the only thing that’s clear is that someone thought Erickson wasn’t being supportive enough, then executed on a threat.

    That’s called blackmail. And yes, I do believe there’s laws against that somewhere…

  • centerist-pinko (a.k.a. HisRoc)

    rtwingtroll,

    Yes, Mike Castle was overtaken by a Tea Party candidate. And how did that work out for the Wicked Witch of Delaware? Ditto Joe Miller in Alaska as well as Sharon Angle in Nevada. So far, the only success of the Tea Party has been to ensure that Harry Reid remains in the Senate and is the Majority Leader.

    I have been reading this thread with great amusement for the past two days. It seems to me that the Tea Party is protesting too loudly in defense of a candidate who, as far as I know, has yet to reach 3% in the polls. That is Ralph Nader territory. If the “establishment” Republican party really had that kind of power in Virginia, then we would have executed the last liberal Democrat years ago. Is there any chance that, like Ralph Nader, Radtke is just too out there for even mainline Republicans, much less Independents?

    And, BTW, why to these Tea Party candidates always want to come in at the top? Like O’Donnell, Miller, and Angle, what is Radtke’s elected experience that qualifies her for such high office? Barack Obama was a fluke in being elected to the US Senate due to his opponent’s campaign collapsing in a sex scandal, but at least he had served as a state senator.

  • valentinus

    HisRoC is that you?? (say it isn’t so that you are a center left pinko) says

    “And, BTW, why do these Tea Party candidates always want to come in at the top? Like O’Donnell, Miller, and Angle, ”

    I have made the same point and I am more sympathetic to the Tea Party folks than you are. US Senator is not the entry level position unless your family is in that business. Run for State Senate or Lt Gov or something. Rubio was a Tea Party favorite but he was the Speaker of the Florida House of Rep.

    BTW the Tea Party is a party in the sense of a gathering not a political party. So no one can claim to be a leader in a nonexistent party. What is shared are just certain political goals that could transcend political parties if there were any fiscally responsible Dems left in the country.

  • centerist-pinko (a.k.a. HisRoc)

    val,

    I was poking my finger in rtwingtroll’s eye. To him, anyone who is left of Glenn Beck is a centrist pinko. If so, I wear that mantle proudly as one of the 38% of American voters who consider themselves Moderate Independents. It doesn’t matter if the Tea Party Movement gains traction within the Republican Party. They will never win the center vote and in that regard they are doomed. The most significant contribution that they can possible make is to assume the role of the pro-slavery wing of the Whigs in the 1850′s and destroy the political party that they seek to dominate.

  • valentinus

    Well I happen to distinguish the Tea Party “movement” from particular self appointed individuals. It’s inevitable that a relatively unorganized group that gets political attention will attract fringe players and wannabes who try to hitch a ride. But is Marco Rubio a fringe figure because he got support from Tea Party sympathizers and fiscal responsibility an extremist position? Sure, any movement can go in negative or positive directions. Just look at what happened to the Democrats over the years as they arrived at their present nasty state. And they were a major party.

  • https://www.facebook.com/pages/Draft-Bob-McDonnell-for-President-in-2012/182559595128064 James “turbo” Cohen
  • Whit

    So its up to Jamie now to prove the negative (that she wasn’t drunk)?? Talk about a logical fallacy The assertion was made by anonymous sources. I’m not sure why they need to remain anonymous if, once again, Jamie is so irrelevant but I digress. To date- no video, no twitter stream, no one so certain that they are willing to put their name (shouldn’t be a big risk since Jamie is only a bit player) to it that Jamie was inebriated. As Britt said- all we have now is a story being carefully walked back. If Red State isn’t careful, it may walk itself right into an apology at this rate.

  • https://www.facebook.com/pages/Draft-Bob-McDonnell-for-President-in-2012/182559595128064 James “turbo” Cohen

    Visit Redstate.com. They have a lot of bloggers whose wrists go limp when registering their names. This is a behind the scenes ruse by Allen operatives. I can smell it a mile away.

  • HisRoc

    “Allen operatives?”

    Where do you sign up up? Because most of the damage being done to Radtke’s campaign is being done by Radtke and her campaign staff. Is she broke because she is paying “Allen operatives?”

    RAOTFLMAO. Turbo, I’ll bet that you couldn’t smell a fresh cow pile on your patio on a hot day.

  • https://www.facebook.com/pages/Draft-Bob-McDonnell-for-President-in-2012/182559595128064 James “turbo” Cohen

    Hisroc, I got more horseshit than my manure spreader can handle bro.

  • Temporary

    Shaun wrote, “I ask you (and others): Is today’s Tea Party movement building that coalition? Or are they simply dragging the coalition to the right… and leaving bits and pieces behind?”

    I don’t have time to write today (or yesterday) but if I did I would argue that the premise is incorrect, the TEA party has a broader more far reaching message than the Republican party and the Republican party is to the right of the TEA party. The TEA party message is the centrist unifying message – balancing the budget, reducing government spending, etc, is a popular (and arguably populist) message that has mass appeal and is especially popular with independents.

    It is Progressives, Republicans, and the media who have labelled the TEA party “far right”, or “further to the right than Republicans”, for their own ends of course. The simple truth is that the TEA party is so simple your great grandfather would have understood and supported it, and therein lies its power.

    Or, said another way, how many times have you rolled your eyes when somebody from the Republican party has actually stood behind tobacco company propoganada, or oil company subsidies, or worse, something like Creationism, and thought to yourself, WT???? That’s your far right.

    It would no doubt be entertaining to watch the TEA party message pull in the blue dog Democrats and reasonable Independents, take the fiscal conservatives from the Republican party, and have what Shaun describes as a coalition, or has that already happened ? Then get the Creationists, PETA, political Evangelicals, Code Pink, extreme environmental groups, Statists and Corporatists (from both parties), etc, and put them in a giant wrestle mania cage so the mayhem can be filmed for posterity, and pay-per-view.

  • https://www.facebook.com/pages/Draft-Bob-McDonnell-for-President-in-2012/182559595128064 James “turbo” Cohen

    I am heartbroken this morning. Audio surfaced that clearly demonstrates that Erick Erickson was right. Listen to how incoherent Jamie was that evening.. http://www.ftrradio.com/2011/08/redstate-gathering-with-jamie-radtke/

    It pained me to listen to this too..

    I guess the old guard 30 year carreer Bush buddy whose neo-jeffersonian leadership helped us to lose senate in 2006 is my only choice now. Again, I really regret finding this proof that my candidate of choice was, as Erickson claimed, drunk and rambling. Must have been the pepsi she was drinking.

  • https://www.facebook.com/pages/Draft-Bob-McDonnell-for-President-in-2012/182559595128064 James “turbo” Cohen

    “On the RedState kerfuffle
    Two wrongs still don’t make a right.
    *
    For those who have not followed the RedState fiasco, Stacy McCain has the Cliff notes version here.

    The most troubling aspect of the kerfuffle is not that Erick Erickson did not want to go against his employers. Some say that undermines his credibility, but we don’t buy into that. And though the flavor-of-the-month mentality regarding political candidates at RedState can be frustrating to Palin supporters, that’s the way it’s always been there, and it’s not the worst part of this mess.

    The real problem for us is the low-down personal attack Erick made against Jamie Radtke. Her campaign manager was wrong to give Politico a copy of a private email Erick sent to Radtke trying to explain why his support for her candidacy had gone soft. But that is nevertheless no excuse for implying that she was “drunk” when she delivered her introductory remarks for Stephen Bannon at the RS event. If Radtke knowingly allowed her campaign manager to divulge the email or put him up to it, then she deserves to be criticized for it. Attempting to paint her an an alcoholic doesn’t fall under this category of criticism. Demonizing a conservative candidate you may disagree with or feel may have wronged you is all too Alinsky.

    All of this springs from the primary race in Virginia between Radtke and George Allen — an important contest, to be sure. But is it really worth the damage Erick and RedState are doing to themselves? Many Palin supporters are backing Radtke in part because she has been very pro-Sarah, but Allen has also made some very supportive remarks about Gov. Palin in the past. You editor was supporting Allen for the GOP presidential nomination in 2007 before his campaign crumbled because of one ill-advised comment he made. When a Democrat operative has a video camera pointed in your direction, it’s smart not to say anything that can be used to destroy you. We’ve also seen tweets and e-mails used to take people down, and blog posts are no different. This is a lesson someone as smart as we know Erick Erickson to be should have learned.

    What undermines Erick’s credibility is not his citation in the email of his bosses’ political preferences. That could have been just a BS excuse meant to try to placate Radtke. It’s the attack on Radtke’s character that undermines Erick’s reputation and that of RedState by extension. If handing an email over to a website which loves to diss conservatives is a Radtke character flaw, then that should have been the focus of Erick’s response, not the gratuitous attacks he threw against her. Even “drunks” can figure that much out.

    - JP
    Posted by Josh Painter at 7:35 AM ”
    -Texans for Sarah Palin

  • Jamie Jacoby

    Wow. Just wow.

    No one ever expected the political establishment to go softly, least of all myself.

    The republican establishment is the thing that cannot, but must, change. You can see it in the comments here. The best defense being a good offense, though, the Tea Party movement finds itself charged with throwing our Reaganites, etc. This, when their poster boy, W Bush, brings us so many expansions of the already unsustainable spending bureaucracy, and when “reformers” have been routinely excluded by those same self-described “conservatives.”

    Nowhere in Virginia do we seem able to discuss the most important thing to Virginia and America today: economics. That is no doubt because no one understands economics. Since no one understands it, and no one is willing to admit that, we talk about those things we do understand: political maneuver, and how we can maintain our preferred flavor of stranglehold on the people of this commonwealth.

    In the Radtke audio posted above, she talks about economics. By all means, let’s destroy her and her free-market heresy.

    We are doomed. No, change that. YOU are doomed. There is a tide of liberty sweeping the nation. Get in front of it at your peril. You can defame and perhaps defeat Jamie Radtke, this time, here, but the old ways are dying and soon will be gone forever.

    Paradigm shift; I know you don’t, or won’t, see it, even when approval of Congress is at an all-time low, less than twenty percent, and even approval of one’s own Congressperson is at an all-time low, less than half. The establishment IS the problem, and a majority of Americans see it now.

    But you don’t. Welcome, gentlemen, to the wrong side of history.

  • Jamie Jacoby

    “Their” poster boy…”their” being the R establishment. Probably obvious enough, but worth clarifying.

  • Mike Barrett

    Please, can we stop talking about a marginal candidate who had a bad day. She is not a factor in the election anyway. The broader question is what is left of the republican party, now that the public has weighed in with outrage at the self inflicted damage they have caused to our political system and the economy.

    The solution is not to support fringe extermists like Radtke; it is for elected republicans, and democrats, to look deeply into their psyches and realize that they have a duty and have taken an oath to govern responsibly. That means extremism on both sides needs to stop, and problem definition and solutions based upon rational data and facts needs to occur immediately.

    The super committee can be the salvation of the republicans, or it can be their actual demise. Just about every rational human being is this nation knows the solution; cut expenditures, raise revenues, reform entitlements, and reform the tax code. Most americans say this, know this, and want politicians to quit with the ideology and get this done. Frankly, most blame the republicans, rightly so, because of their intrasigence, and of course, their failure to do what is right for America. They could decide to actually do what they should, and instead of focusing on creeating dismal conditions in America so they can defeat the President, they could decide to do what is best for us. We’ll see, it won’t be long.

  • Pedro

    The tactics of political bullies that support candidates like Jaime Radtke are Tyrants of Liberty. Some of these supporters are nasty “in-your-face” commentators on blogs attacking anyone who differs in opinion, but they are cowards and hypocrites in person. They want their way of thinking or will call you a “neocon” or “establishment.” That is similar to Dictators’ hatchet men.

  • Jamie Jacoby

    Hey Pedro,

    What’s the republican party of Virginia’s plan for reinvigorating economic activity, creating wealth, and thus creating jobs? Let’s talk about it.

  • Steve Vaughan

    rtwing: “Steve Vaughn and other centerist-pinko Allenites”

    This is absolutely the first time anyone has ever confused me with a supporter of George Allen (the proper term for which, btw, is “Allenista”).

    I’m just observing the facts on the ground. At this point, neither Ms. Radke nor anyone else has the slightest chance to take the 2012 GOP U.S. Senate nomination away from George Allen. Unless he shoots himself in the foot. It wouldn’t be the first time he’s done that, but I wouldn’t count on it happening again. He’s got smart people running hsi campaign. And if Ms. Radke is defining her electorate as “everybody to the right of George Allen,” there aren’t that many folks over there. Probably not enough to win a GOP primary. Certainly not enough to win a general election.

  • Whit

    Jamie’s not trying to win the primary today. Its ten months to the primary. The only folks trying to win the primary today are Allen supporters continually bleating for her and the other candidates to drop out. she’s trying to win by criscrossing the state, meeting folks and ginning up financial support. All things that are natural when you don’t have name recognition yet. That comes with time.

  • Pedro

    In addition, when it is not possible for these Jamie Radtke supporters to defend the post in question (conversation) they will change the subject for another topic to start the attacks on another front, similar to the Obama Machine of hatchet men.

  • Eric McGrane

    Pedro: what is the post in question about which we should be discussing? Please pull everyone back on-topic, so that we all stay focused.

  • https://www.facebook.com/pages/Draft-Bob-McDonnell-for-President-in-2012/182559595128064 James “turbo” Cohen

    “Saying she gave a bad speech is fine, if she gave a bad speech. She’s not a professional politician. Some folks might even see that as a plus.

    Saying she gave a bad speech because she was drunk is another thing entirely.

    Saying she stretch the speech too long is fine. She was offered 20 minutes, she took 30.

    Making it sound like she was only asked to give a brief introduction and stretched that to 30 minutes makes it sound a lot worse than it was. That’s not fine.

    Mistakenly saying she was drunk and then offering a *real* apology and a *real* retraction would be fine …

    I think you see the pattern, don’t you?

    Radtke probably never had a chance against George “Macaca” Allen. Whether she had a good chance is not the point. Radtke didn’t deserve to be called a drunk if her only sin was rambling for ten minutes too long. If she would have gotten a real speaking slot, but didn’t because of Allen’s social connections to the redstate bigwigs, that stinks too. O’Donnell was a terrible candidate but she didn’t deserve the treatment Rove and others gave her.

    Posted by: Who Let The Donks Out | Thursday, August 25, 2011 at 04:27 PM”

    http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2011/08/the-radtke-vs-erickson-time-line.html

  • Reid Greenmun

    Good ‘ole Mike Barrett – government needs to ignore their constituents and do what Mike and his business lobby pals want.

    Bal, bla, bla … talk about an extremist! The Barrett’s of the world are extremists in their view that our nation should NOT be governed with the concent of the governed and that “We, The People” are sheep to be fleeced.

  • Mike Barrett

    I guess I would repeat what others have said herein and suggest that a candidate who is polling 3% or so in a primary, not even a general election, does not have any claim to represent the will of the people. Now Greenmun is quite used to claiming he does when his organization constantly overstates their influence. Just this weekend, they sent 12 protestors to the inauguration of the Tide which was ridden by over 75,000 people on the first weekend, which was free of any fare, and which has averaged over 15,000 riders this week as well. So Greenmun has a place in his heart for the underdog, no matter how exteme or bizarre their views.

  • Jamie Jacoby

    Pedro,

    You’re right. It’s much more important to talk about a situation which, as the OP clearly intimates, is about as clear as mud (8 updates so far). Clearly, at 75 comments and going strong, articles like this one are the meat-and-potatoes of politics. Which, of course, only proves my point above: no one understands economics, the only important thing that no one is able to discuss.

    Shawn is able to write extensively about politics, and how it should be done. Economics, not so much.

    In spite of the fact that no one understands economics, most people believe that politicians, who similarly know nothing about economics, should be in charge of the economy.

    Wanna know why the economy is in the dumper, Pedro? You’re the reason.

    If you’ve read any number of my comments here, you’d know that 95% of them are about economics. I think Jamie Radtke would like to talk about economics.

    It is completely understandable why the political establishment wouldn’t want to talk about the economy. It’s undeniably their mess; why would they want to talk about it? Let’s talk about anything else. The dems and the repubs both continued to raise the debt ceiling with little or no resistance.

    If you guys weren’t so enamoured with spending our money like drunken sailors, passing laws that shred our civil rights, and failing to defend the free market, the Tea Party wouldn’t exist, Jamie Radtke wouldn’t be on anyone’s hit list, and I’d be doing something billable for a client instead of writing this.

    Wanna know where I came from? You made me inevitable. How’s that for a segue, Pedro?

  • Jamie Jacoby

    Denninger’s recent piece, titled “Bernanke Shoves DC In The (Jackson) Hole” [google "market-ticker Bernanke Shoves DC In The (Jackson) Hole] includes a chart that shows two superimposed values. The graphed values show quarterly net changes in GDP and quarterly net changes in total U.S. debt (not just federal debt, or consumer debt, but total debt).

    It can be seen that the rate, NOT JUST THE RAW AMOUNT OF DEBT, BUT THE RATE OF DEBT ACCUMULATION has ramped up constantly over the years and was in the process of going exponential. In spite of this constantly increasing rate of debt accumulation, we only managed weak GDP growth, and that for the past 30 years. As soon as the debt bubble exploded, GDP went negative.

    Now, would someone like to argue that this obvious destruction of the productive economy, and the substitution of one that relied on ever-increasing debt loads, is somehow NOT the fault of the political establishment?

    Pedro? Anyone? Bueller?

  • Jamie Jacoby

    1. Unemployment is at Depression levels, when measured by the same means that were used at the time of the Depression.
    2. Record numbers of Americans are on food stamps; the record goes up each month to a new record.
    3. The problem with the economy is that politicians are in charge of it, but they don’t understand it.
    4. The problem with politicians and political blogs is that they neither want to talk about economics nor admit their responsibility for the “policies” that ruin it.
    5. The solution offered by the political establishment is mud wrestling and name-calling.

  • Mike Barrett

    No Jamie, the solution offered by the republican party is “mud wrestling and name calling.” Simply calling for more cuts will put the economy into depression and will create incredible hardship for all but the top 2%. Fact is, the simple solution has been identified by commission after commision, and verified by the rating agencies; that is, cut expenditures, increase revenues, modify entitlements, and reform the tax code. Only the republican party as determined by the republican study committee in the House will not follow this formula, and wants cuts only that will throw us into depression. The american people know this, the economists know this, the business leaders know this, frankly, most republicans know this, but their leaders allegiance to Grover Norquist’s no new taxes means they won’t accept what we need. They have a chance in the super committee to show they will act for America; regretfully, I doubt they will. Goodby.

  • Pedro

    I did not know that people who follow Mrs. Radtke could read peoples’ minds by reading a post. These people have super powers.
    The Radtke supporters are famous for using the same words and the same tactics, the blame game, the neocon and the establishment titles. They sound like parrots.

  • Mike Barrett

    Yes, it makes one wonder if the extremists who support her thinking are simply oblivious to the world around them and to the damage they have created with their fiscal irresponsibility. In a sense, I think most rational people accept their basic premis; that is, borrowing at the levels we have reached is unsustainable and we must reform government and the budget. There, many experts and the broad majority of our citizens agree with this so please declare victory. Ok, but now we must deal with how to do this in a fiscally responsible way without creating a depression. The Chairman of the Fed has acknowledged that we have reached the limits of what monetary policy can do and it is now up to Congress and the President. The Boehner/Obama deal would have solved this issue months ago, but it was vetoed by the tea party and the Republican Study Committee. But ironically, since then, the american people have realized that the republicans/tea party have jeopardized our financial future by insisting on cuts only, and we are right back in the same situation; that is, we need further cuts, increased revenue, reform of the tax code, and modification of entitlements. If we do this, we will enter a period of sustained growth and prosperity; if not, we face fiscal armageddon. Your choice.

  • Jamie Jacoby

    Hey “Pedro,” I have an idea. How about you get the folks here at BearingDrift to start a new thread about economics, and then you and I can discuss it at length? You can bring your ideas, I will bring mine, we can argue the merits, and the rest of the folks can follow and comment if they wish.

    Just one condition: don’t endlessly cut-and-paste talking points like Mike does. I am hopeful that you can engage in an actual discussion, even though thus far you have only demonstrated your ability to use standard argument tactics while not using any facts. Help me out here, “Pedro.” Got any facts?

    Then, everyone else can get back to the important work of arguing about whether Jamie Radtke was drunk or not, whether or not it was a good idea to “take on redstate,” if Carter Wrenn really is an idiot, and how we can get George Allen elected to the Senate again where he can reprise his role as big government, tax-and-spend insider, handing out regulatory and tax advantages to well-connected “contributors” and “friends,” maybe even to folks who happen to employ bloggers.

    How would that be?

    In the meantime, I will continue with the rest of my life, living according to this maxim: the political establishment is NOT equal to the task it has taken for itself, that of managing the economy. Turn on the financial news on any given day for the past 4 years and what have they been discussing? What will the government do next? What will the Federal Reserve do next? What will the bank regulators do next? Will there be more stimulus? Will there be more Quantitative Easing?

    Conspicuously absent have been any, ANY announcements on bringing actual productive economic activity back to America.

    Back to your regularly scheduled programming….

  • Jamie Jacoby

    Extremist? Facts?

    An Observation from Grant Williams in a recent release titled “Things That Make You Go Hmmmm…A Walk Around the Fringes of Finance”:

    “See, from 1990 to 2010 GDP expanded at 4.8% annualized, but debt was expanding faster, at 7.4%. So the real rate of expansion was in fact negative.”

    Darnit, it’s that whole pesky debt and GDP, borrowing our way to false prosperity thing again. When is that guy gonna shut up about that?

  • Mike Barrett

    Well yes Jamie, that is the case because the financial condition of our nation in the years after the collapse of the financial system brought on by the tax cuts and runaway spending of the Bush administration has had profound and long lasting effects. Frankly, at his point, few dispute these facts; the issue remains, what to do about it. Yes, I have repeated herein the consensus of the broadest segment of economists and business professionals, I won’t post that again. The question is, will the republican party finally admit that their solution of just more cuts will cause depression, hardship, and misery. You seem to imply that we must go through that; others suggest that there will be tough times, but not calamity. The Republican Study Committee, now fighting the consensus of the american people, has a choice to make. If they truly want to serve the interests of the american public, they will include tax reform and increased revenue; if not, we face disaster. Their choice.

  • https://www.facebook.com/pages/Draft-Bob-McDonnell-for-President-in-2012/182559595128064 James “turbo” Cohen

    Mike, enough of the Alinsky drum beat ok. “Yes, it makes one wonder if the extremists who support her thinking are simply oblivious to the world around them and to the damage they have created with their fiscal irresponsibility.” And if I turn that tactic around.. “Yes, it makes one wonder if Mike Barrett likes little boys”. Either statement is equally propaganda unless of course you do like little boys a little too much, Mike.

    The Real problem is that you dems and you gop rinos enjoy tremendous power over the average citizen and you successfully pull the wool over millions of eyes using the power of a presumed trusted media. You depend on enough suckers to believe your bullshit enough of the time to leverage elections and it is still working. However, this episode is case in point for just how perverted the republican establishment network is and how people running media outlets feigning conservatism for political gain are easily corrupted by money and influence. Party loyalty overrides every other professional standard for Eagle publishing which has by their actions joined ranks with ACORN. Yes I said that. Eagle publishing has demonstrated by their actions that they are part of GOP establishment media. Sadly this covert attempt on villifying Jamie Radtke taints everything Eagle is involved with for the rest of this election cycle because of their value to corrupt establishment politics of the GOP, notice I did not say Right or conservative. This is sad for me because I am a Regnery buff owning many of their books. This also is a clear case exhibiting that Allen will accept any amount of corruption as long as it benefits his view of the political spectrum.. not a word from his campaign about this.. yet. Fortunately there are still a few reporters unafraid to investigate and report on this story.

    We catch dems doing this stuff all the time. Tea Party Movement be damned if it will let this one fly over without sending flak their way. Mark my words.

    Red State was your alternative media name but now as a mainstream blog you have become the good ole boy Rino State.. Erick “caught in a lie” Erickson has issues with conservative women because his bosses say so. His reporting/distorting seems to bear this out over time. Anyone with a carreer in politics who would dare to stand up on principle to counterpoint his employers corruption will be destroyed professionally so I guess that is why Erick and for that matter the establishment consultants are so quiet now. You old dinosaurs will never change.

  • Sandy

    Turbo- As to George Allen not responding to this instance, he is very smart to stay away from it. A great political philosophy he has obviously learned well, NEVER PUNCH DOWN. Had he used that same philosophy during the 06 election, we would probably not have had to suffer through Democrat Senator Webb. He won’t repeat that mistake.

  • https://www.facebook.com/pages/Draft-Bob-McDonnell-for-President-in-2012/182559595128064 James “turbo” Cohen

    I would have had a little respect if Allen made a statement rejecting the alleged special favor.. By his silence his campaign condones it. I would imagine Radtkeor some of the other candidates like Jackson or Donner would have done just that.

  • Reid Greenmun

    James pretty well nails it.

  • Mike Barrett

    Frankly James, I don’t know who Alinski is, I had never hear of Redstate before I read this forum, I have never suppported Acorn, I don’t have a clue who Erikson or Radke is, never heard of Eagle Publishing, and frankly, could care less about any of the above. I do want this country to get back to a trajectory of growth and prosperity, and conclude that what is left of the republican Party is actually against that goal. To do so would help re-elect President Obama, so the Party has pledged to do everything conceivably possible to defeat him; if that means we, the 98% of americans who actually work for a living, get punished, then fine, so be it, the Corporate masters will reward us in the end. I manage a commercial real estate company which has suffered, like many others, because the republicans have stymied the reform that is universally accepted as the solution for long term prosperity. So call me what you will; I could care less. But I do know that a party at war with itself is not what we need going forward.

  • Henry Ryto

    Can I point out the obvious here? There’s no need to slime Rat-ke: her campaign is stuck in single digits, insiders know her campaign is a hoax foisted on us by Pat McSweeney, she has little ability to gain traction, etc.

    As for the blog post, it conveyed nothing more than two observers perception of what they had watched. Come 2012, think anyone is going to give a toss about this event?

  • Sandy

    Turbo- The special favor, by Erickson, was afforded to Radtke. He endorsed her, and gave her the opportunity to speak before the RedState gathering. There was no reason for him to do that at all when she has never gained any traction with her campaign, and has not caught fire with anyone except die hards like you.

    I have read post after post by you, on this article, distorting and in some cases outright lying about the circumstances surround the “bad speech.”

    As I said above, George Allen doesn’t need to even concern himself with the Radtke implosion, she owns that on her own. Why ever should George Allen address someone who obviously has been nothing more than a buzzing bee, desperate to get some attention, even negative attention, to her weak and all but non-existent campaign? Radtke isn’t even a challenge to him, and as I said above, he doesn’t need to Punch Down at an inferior candidate.

    Give it up Turbo, as your arguments against the wrong demon are doing nothing to help your choice of candidates. I doubt you would ever give Allen any respect, not even a little, under any circumstances.

    There is a good reason that RedState banned you when you went their trying to make the same arguments, bashed some long time members there, and which have no basis in the facts.

  • http://www.advrider.com James “turbo” Cohen

    Really Sandy? “I have read post after post by you, on this article, distorting and in some cases outright lying..” Bring it on and point it out.
    As for being banned from Red State I wear that as a badge of honor. They fail the independent conservsative test.. I was banned by a band of Rinos. (thumping chest) Know any of those nameless shameless chumps Sandy? Is Red State up for conservative discussion sans good ole boy influence? You decide.

  • http://www.advrider.com James “turbo” Cohen

    This is a complement to Bearing Drift. This IS the only widely read open forum in Virginia for conservatives of every stripe and they seldom ever ban dissent. Red State clearly cannot and will not tolerate dissent.

    Kudos JR and crew.

  • http://www.reflectionsfromtheburg.blogspot.com/ Scott Cooper

    With all the distractions that are being thrown across the airwaves about The RedState gathering in Charleston earlier this month – this is a great interview by Jamie Radtke, that she delivered there. Still looking for other video’s / audio’s that show anything but a coherent, articulate candidate.

    http://www.ftrradio.com/2011/08/redstate-gathering-with-jamie-radtke/

    In the new world of “New Media” we live in, I am amazed that we are spending as much time talking about this as we are. I encourage Jamie Radtke to move on from this – even though those who are working against her refuse to let it die.

    Those who throw dirt, lose ground.

    The question in my mind – those who refuse to let it die, where are their true philosophical views?

    Those who are focused on reclaiming our republic for the principles we hold dear – The Rule of Law, Fiscal Responsibility, Limited Government and Free Markets – will continue to do so. Others on both sides of the aisle, who thrive on “politics” will continue to throw dirt.

    As for the polls indicating Allen is a sure thing – we are 10 months away from putting much faith in those, in my opinion.

  • http://www.reflectionsfromtheburg.blogspot.com/ Scott Cooper

    The time invested in this discussion, and my thinking on this issue this past week has prompted me to write this:

    http://reflectionsfromtheburg.blogspot.com/2011/08/those-who-throw-dirt-lose-ground.html

    Let’s move on to the issues that matter.

  • https://www.facebook.com/pages/Draft-Bob-McDonnell-for-President-in-2012/182559595128064 James “turbo” Cohen
  • http://www.reflectionsfromtheburg.blogspot.com/ Scott Cooper

    James,
    Excellent way to close it. I appreciate you sharing it. Onwards and upwards!
    Scott

  • https://www.facebook.com/pages/Draft-Bob-McDonnell-for-President-in-2012/182559595128064 James “turbo” Cohen

    The closing comment quoted from the link.. “this has the feel of a good analysis by someone who watched the trainwreck instead of riding in it.”

    end of discussion

  • https://www.facebook.com/pages/Draft-Bob-McDonnell-for-President-in-2012/182559595128064 James “turbo” Cohen
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