Rigell willing to duck debates with Nye
By Brian Kirwin | Wednesday, July 21st, 2010 | PoliticsIf Independent Kenny Golden doesn’t show 15% in three independent polls, Scott Rigell won’t show up for debates with Golden and Rep. Glenn Nye, according to the Virginian-Pilot.
Scott Rigell no-showed debate after debate during the stretch run of the GOP primary this spring citing his “busy” schedule, but apparently a busy schedule isn’t the problem for the fall. It’s whether Kenny Golden will be there or not.
“This is a very touchy subject,” said Bill Carson, of the Third Precinct Citizens’ Advisory Committee, which is inviting all the candidates to its Aug. 19 debate. Rigell’s campaign “told me early on that they have no intention of appearing with Kenny Golden…. We all decided unanimously to proceed.”
Meanwhile, the Hampton Roads Chamber of Commerce has a commitment from Nye and Rigell for a Sept. 27 debate but has not decided whether to include Golden – a move that would cause Rigell to back out.
Rigell and Golden debated one-on-one at the Virginia Beach Republican Breakfast this past spring. Prior to that date, Rigell debated frequently with all primary opponents. After that, most debates found Rigell too busy to attend, including Bearing Drift’s debate where Rigell said he was attending an Urban League dinner and couldn’t make the debate, despite several other candidates easily attending both.
Freedom 1650 hosted a live broadcast primary debate. Rigell couldn’t make that one, either. But now it’s not a busy schedule – it’s a busy podium.
Jason Miyares, Rigell’s campaign manager, said the Republican doesn’t want Golden to participate until the Independent has demonstrated that he has the support of 15 percent of voters as determined by three independent polls.
Does anyone honestly think three independent polls will even be conducted by these dates?
Rigell’s campaign manager says he’s using the standard of 15% in polling that is used by the Commission on Presidential Debates.
Uh Jason, do you mean the Commission that was created and controlled by the Republican and Democratic Parties? Of course they exclude independents. And if Golden was getting 15%, you’d be in a sublime panic.
(By the way, what is this irritating habit of Scott Rigell not being quoted about what Scott Rigell thinks? It’s not like Scott is hard to find. He’s campaigning everywhere.)
Nye’s campaign, of course, takes the position that he’ll debate anyone, anytime, anyplace but isn’t making any demands.
My personal opinion? Untelevised debates are nothing to get all worried about. They are never seen by enough people to make a difference and, in these days of video trackers, gaffe potential is no higher than taking questions at a civic league.
How about media reports that might be unfavorable? If a Republican campaign expects positive press, I expect them to then tell me how Alice in Wonderland is a true story.
This is a story that never had to happen. Whether Golden is included in untelevised debates will have nothing to do with November’s result, but it gives life to the continuing charge that Rigell fears debating unless under certain circumstances, not exactly the position you’d expect a challenger seeking to excite his base to take.
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The right wants to jeer him. The left wants to censor him. Moderates usually want both. Brian Kirwin is a political consultant and public relations strategist in Virginia Beach with a lightning-rod flair. Brian also serves on the VB Arts & Humanities Commission and frequently appears on Hampton Roads theatrical stages, if only to prove that all actors aren’t liberals. Kirwin’s columns stir up debate and hit the political scene with no punches pulled.
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65 Responses to "Rigell willing to duck debates with Nye"
If Rigell can’t handle Kenny Golden, how will he confront the strong personalities in Washington and around the globe?
Rigell needs to climb out from underneath his rock and demonstrate his ability to command a debate (thus far EPIC FAIL).
Leadership isn’t easy.
@NotJeffFrederick – He WON’T confront those personalities, he will “get caught up in the hype” and go along to be popular. Rigell HATES criticism of any kind, and rumor has it throws epic temper tantrums at even mild insinuations that he is a “RINO,” which he is. Rigell can’t take heat – and this was VERY obvious during the primary, something that many people on this particular site refused to see. So, now you have (out side of Jessica Sandlin) the weakest possible member of the primary field – in terms of backbone and thick skin- as your candidate. I am feeling a great big I TOLD YOU SO coming on in November.
Interesting the Rigell is quoted as saying he is not a RINO. Most republicans that I know who are decent, hard working folks who contribute to the community, who care as well about quality public services, and who do not espouse the false populism of the radical leadership of the party. Regretfully, these civic minded republicans are now condemned by the talk show entertainers and the party leadership as RINOs because they simply won’t participate in the creation of fear, derision, and condemnation espoused by the party leaders. They still, however, vote republican, I suspect they hope that someday the Party, which to them is much more than its current leadership, we reawake to participate in the important issues of the day and join with like minded moderates of all parties to solve the pressing domestic and international issues that confront us.
So let me get this straight … Scott Rigell did SIX debates during the Primary including a one on one with Kenny Golden and now he is afraid to debate and afraid of Kenny?
Brian, you have worked in and around campaigns long enough to put out a better report than this.
This race will be won by Rigell or Nye. It is time to have them debate one on one. Golden had his shot in the GOP primary and he quit. The freshman Democrat ought be be ready to defend his leadership in Congress because people in the 2nd district want leaders not followers like Nye or those who give up in the face of adversity like Golden.
Integrity(doubtful), don’t blame the messenger. If someone doesn’t want to look afraid, the first step would be to not act afraid.
integrity – just like the one-on-one debates that were requested between Loyola and Rigell or Mizusawa and Rigell during the primary, but were rejected because Rigell didn’t want to “exclude” anyone?
Let’s not explain this for anything more than what it is – Rigell thinks this is his to lose (although he knows it will be a tough campaign) and doesn’t want to give any undue attention to what he considers a gadfly in Kenny Golden.
This isn’t about strength of character or being a RINO or anything of the sort.
It’s a political calculation.
Political calculation? Not a very good one considering the story in the paper. Now Rigell looks like he is running scared and trying to tell the people how to run their debates.
What right does Rigell have to say who gets to debate and who doesnt?
Golden got the signatures to qualify on the ballot, if Rigell wants to exclude him then maybe he should think long and hard about just what American democracy is.
Yes, this does not cast Rigell as a confident and capable candidate. Add to that the new money that he has to contribute to his own campaign, and he is starting to look like damaged goods. Perhaps this leadership selected candidate just does not have the support of the grass roots of the party, and his shift to the right certainly narrows the field for his candidacy among the voters, if not among the ideological purists in the leadership.
@integrity
So I suppose running as an independent is “giving up in the face of adversity”. Supporting someone like Rigell just because he bought the Republican nomination is giving up in the face of adversity.
I’m proud to live in a district where democracy is still alive enough that candidates withdraw from a lop sided primary to run anyway when they feel that the other nominees are less qualified.
@James Cho
You should watch Rigell being ambushed by that young man who is a Democrat tracker. He asks simple questions about the GI bill and Scott Rigell just says he “doesn’t do impromptu interviews.” Soon Rigell will have to understand he doesn’t have a crown and he doesn’t make rules. He is running for office in a democracy, in a district full of concerned citizens who want answers.
In a heavily military district like ours Golden would have been golden…
I find Scott Rigell brazen, pompous, and arrogant to naturally assume he is in the position to control what or who the electorate will or will not hear to decide on their choice in the second district. Those of us that are not aligned with a political party do not blindly push the button because of an R, D, or I. Nor do we place our vote on the basis of telephone polls on who the likely winner will be. We cast our votes on the comparative information we can get from those who successfully followed the process to become candidates.
It appears that Rigell is unwilling to unconditionally accept the democratic process and freedoms that this country is founded upon. His autocratic behavior displays that he considers himself above others. I have viewed Rigell’s website and found some names of those that I have supported both with my vote and financially. I believe that Rigell’s attitude is an embarrassment to both those who endorsed him and his party. At this point, there is no way that I would consider him to represent me or my family. So bring on the debate between the two remaining candidates.
Rigell is more scared to face a situation where he is not in complete control than any specific opponent.
Golden qualified for the ballot. He has as much right to present his views to the voters as Rigell does. If Rigell was paying to put on these debates then he could dictate who gets to participate. If Rigell doesn’t want to face Golden then fine, hold the debates without him and have an empty podium stand in for him.
Just saw the story on TV;
http://www.wvec.com/news/politics/Rigell-puts-conditions-on-debate-participating-98954289.html
It shows a very disconcerting pattern. Scott Rigell never appears on camera, it is always Miyares. Although Kenny appears rather blunt and unpolished, at least he will speak for himself.
Is Scott Rigell running for Congress or is it Jason Miyares? Inquiring minds want to know how Rigell intends to operate in Congress if he can’t even stand up to the local media.
Can I get a clarification on this please;
“Jason Miyares, Rigell’s campaign manager, said the Republican doesn’t want Golden to participate until the Independent has demonstrated that he has the support of 15 percent of voters as determined by three independent polls.”
Three independent polls? Define independent. Independent to me is done by a media outlet or civic organization. Are there three independent poll showing Rigell has 15% of the vote? Or Nye? There have been no independent polls thus far and there may be one at most before Nov 2.
Either Miyares was misquoted or misunderstood or by Rigell’s own standards, he is not qualified to debate either.
Chris Meeropol an independent poll has been done and it was published in the washington post. Kenny had 4% and Rigell was ahead of Nye by 4 or 5.
kenny had his chance in the primary where I thought he could have done fantastic based on his credintials but then he backed out and threw a fit because he thought everybody was against him. The only reason he is still running is because he has a grudge against Scott and the Republican Party. It all started when he did not get his way about having a canvass instead of a primary.
Please link me to the poll as I am certain it was done by the Rigell campaign post-primary and then published in the Washington Post. Being published in a newspaper, but paid for by a candidate, does not qualify you as being independent.
As for Kenny running because of some grudge, that is hardly true. Kenny has said repeatedly in TV interviews and news articles that he is running as an Independent because A. The party rigged the election process for Rigell and are only concerned about money, not qualifications and B. Because he views Scott Rigell and Glenn as clearly not qualified to represent the most military district in the world.
Rigell’s refusal to debate combined with his refusal to even appear on camera prove Kenny’s points. Rigell hides behind his money and his campaign manager and would be wholly unable to stand up to anyone in Washington.
Does Scott Rigell really have the fortitude to be a Congressman? His deliberate avoidance of a debate with Independent Candidate Kenny Golden is cowardly to say the least. What is Rigell afraid of? Perhaps he is simply too preoccupied running his own business. Will Scott be too busy represent the people as well?
Candidates should not be chosen based on monetary standing, but rather their ability to lead.
As a Veteran, I feel that Scott Rigell has been intentionally avoiding a debate with Kenny Golden because he does not have the right answers and solutions. Denying a debate with Kenny is disrespectful, not only to Kenny, whose a Retired Commodore that served 31 years in the Navy, but to all veterans.
Senators John Warner and George Allen nominated Kenny for Secretary of the Navy. Without question, Kenny is the best qualified candidate to represent the largest military-concentrated area on the East Coast. He is a proven leader who possesses the integrity and experience needed to represent Virginians on Capitol Hill.
Many are saying that Scott Rigell has disgraced himself and the Republican Party. He does not have the leadership, nor the political experience that it will take to succeed on Capital Hill. Scott should admit that he is not qualified to be in this race and concede.
I strongly urge the GOP leadership in the 2nd District to demand Rigell withdraw from the race.
Kenny who? Oh right…the guy who couldn’t win as a Republican since he had no money and no support…so he decided to run as an independent with no money and no support. It’s weird since he was the former chairman of the Republican party in Virginia Beach. If he couldn’t win as a Republican, I’d love to know how he thinks he can win as an independent.
Chris, how does a party “rig an election”? Because if Kenny couldn’t do it, despite being Mr. Republican, I don’t think it can be done. You can’t rig a primary when everyone in the 2nd District had an opportunity to vote.
As for the debates, the time constraints (amount of time a candidate has to answer a question) are already a problem. Why would anyone want to take time away from hearing the Democrat and the Republican, one of whom will win on November 2, just to hear from a third party candidate who has no chance? Let’s keep our eyes on the target here, which is Glenn Nye.
Why would anyone want to take time away from the Republivan or the Democrat? Because Golden is on the ballot, that’s why. I believe the reason this country is in the mess we are in is because of the monopoly the two major parties have on our political system. Republicans and Democrats display an arrogance when it comes to “third parties”, Rigell’s refusal to debate if Golden is included is a perfect example of it.
A Third Political Party?
A 57-percent majority thinks it would be a good idea if a third national political party were formed to run against the Democrats and Republicans. Thirty percent think a third party is a bad idea.
Two out of three independents (67 percent) think a third party is a good idea, while half of Republicans (50 percent) and over half of Democrats (58 percent) agree.
When asked specifically about the Tea Party movement, nearly half of voters (46 percent) think it is good for the country, while 29 percent say it’s bad for the country.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/07/16/fox-news-poll-obama-hindrance-fall-elections/
LC,
You have a child’s comprehension of how the nomination process works. First of all Kenny had support, but it was only from people who could afford to donate time or less than $100. Campaigns are expensive, but there are ways to run them with little to no money (just not in a primary with 6 other candidates, one of which being the party’s golden boy). Kenny has all of his signs, all of his literature, and enough volunteers to get them all out, he also has commitments for donations to pay for staff and rent through November. You would be amazed just how much buzz those “Who is Kenny Golden?” signs are generating.
As for the nomination;
The GOP leadership locked up all the money for Rigell and made it clear that no one was to donate to the other candidates, especially Kenny.
When the money is locked up, it is near impossible to compete. Following that, they put McWaters (Rigell’s buddy) in charge of running all of the 2nd district for McDonnell. When McDonnell won, his entire operation folded into McWaters who used it to beat Rosemary Wilson.
Once McWaters was finished, his entire operation rolled into Rigell’s. So you see McDonnell basically handed Rigell his campaign organization without any chance for the other candidates to grab a piece.
By organization I mostly mean data and staff, as the volunteers were technically free to choose sides. I say technically because the GOP leaders made sure that it was a stigma to support anyone but their chosen one.
The icing on the cake was the making the election a primary instead of a canvass. Not only do primaries favor richer candidates, but they also require massive manpower to staff the polls. Rigell was handed McDonnells and McWaters EDO (election day operations) lists on silver platter, no such offering was made to any other candidate.
In a perfect world to a naive mind as yourself, it is impossible to rig a primary. To anyone who has a clue how these things work, it is more than possible; it happened.
Kenny never tried to rig anything while he was chair. Anyone who witnessed his chairmanship knows he was the most honorable man they had ever met. Kenny retired from the Navy in 2004, he is no long time activist like the media would suggest. Everyone around him had been active a decade or longer. When you have an honorable man in a snakepit, odd things tend to happen. Kenny’s natural inclination is to always believe someone is being straightforward and honest towards him. When he realized the party had made him a bunch of empty promises and basically lied to his face, he decided to make a statement.
Every commentator, blogger, and staffer that posts here knows I am 100% right and dead on. Anyone care to challenge me?
I certainly won’t challenge you, and it is interesting to find out about the inner workings of the mafia/Party which heretofor could only be gleaned by trying to interpret the shadows. If all this is true, who does Rigell represent? We know he has the religious right vote locked up, so Pat Robertson et al must be very pleased to have their advocate in the race, but where does that leave the 95% of the rest of us? We know big corporate money supports the right wing, because they want to increase the advantage of big corporate money in politics, in business, and in society. But knowing all this, how could so called tea party advocates support a guy who will vote with Cantor/Bush? Do they belong to the country club too? Seems like more and more that Nye is simply the best, brightest, intelligent choice, especially as you guys on this forum prove you don’t play well with others.
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by bearingdrift, Old Virginia. Old Virginia said: New Blog Post: Rigell willing to duck debates with Nye http://bearingdrift.com/2010/07/21/rigell-willing-to-duck-debates-with-nye/ [...]
@Chris-
Amen.
Not sure how a primary, which is open to ALL registered voters in the 2nd district can be rigged or stacked for or against a specific candidate.
Well J.M., it appears that there is a shadow republican party organization that exists alongside the regular party apparatus, but only the chosen few are allowed or encouraged to participate. The Party has its regular meetings, and people talk and argue, but in fact, the decisions that count are made in the back room, presumably at the country club. The official leadership is a charade, and the money interests actually run things. Rigell is the annointed sucessor to the operations of the shadow party, but signs are growing that the many of the rabble rousers are just not willing to tow the line any farther and will rebel against the shadow decisions and support Golden. Is that about right?
Mr. Ripley,
You would be correct to say a general election can’t be rigged, but this was a primary. In my previous post I explained just how it happened, so I would suggest you re-read it and let me know if you have any questions.
Just to further elaborate;
Partisan primaries are always based on turnout, money, and name ID. Turnout and money are for the most part controlled by the political parties.
Year after year, the same people, with little change, man the phone banks and the polls on election day. Yes, McDonnell brought tons of new people into the process, but the die hard core of volunteers listens to the party leadership for direction. The party leaders are not always the official party leadership.
Campaigns are all about data and the actual party controls astonishingly little of it. When Rigell got endorsed by Chris Stolle and Ron V, he didn’t get a check, he got a CD. That CD had all the data they had collected during their campaigns. That data is priceless. McWaters also gave him a CD and that CD had all of Bob McDonnell’s information on it as well.
One candidate in a nomination process having that data and the money to use it makes it impossible for anyone else to win. Unless you want to pay thousands of dollars a month for a private service (not even close in value to what the most recent local campaign will collect), you are stuck using the 08 GOP presidential primary data from the State Board of Elections that Gary Byler distributed.
Campaigns are expensive and they become more so when you don’t have accurate data. You can’t afford to mail everyone, so you mail people who voted in 4 out of the 4 last elections. With data that is 2 years old, maybe 20% will have moved and you just wasted a few thousand dollars in return postage. With data just collected just a few months prior, Rigell was unstoppable.
I could go on and on about the dynamics of this primary and how it was completely rigged for Rigell, but I think you get the point.
Thank you Chris Meeropol for explaining local politics so that even I can understand.
I always heard that knowledge was power. I think that J Edgar Hoover used to say that.
Perhaps someone needs to give the Jimmy Carter clone in the White House a CD on how to do a proper sting operation. Or at least remind him that a FBI agent ruined Nixon.
I suppose they were trying to draw attention away from former Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich’s trial in Chicago.
I wonder if Hillary Clinton will be the VP nominee in 2012 ??? I guess we will all find out in 2 years.
Good post Brian. Rigell prevailed against 5 other candidates from the same party in the Primary, but given the “establishment” help as Chris mentioned previously, it was done deal. As I said during the Primary, Rigell as the candidate isn’t equipped to mount a political campaign and fight on two fronts. I have been at several events since the Primary where he was the headliner, and it sounds like he is running a “touchy-feely” campaign with no concrete positions on much of anything and is lip-synching in a Milli-Vanilli, Al Gore sing-songy style to a pre-recorded audio tape.
I told one of Rigell’s staffers that they should have ripped off Loyola’s Primary position papers to add some substance to his campaign. She got very “animated” to the point of saying that Jason would not support it and Scott had his “own” ideas. Well, Scott had better get out there and get real because trying to coast on approval polls will only go so far until he is ambushed in front of a camera or by a reporter on substance and can’t hold Jason in front of him as a “human shield”.
@ Chris – great post on what really went on in the 2nd District Primary! I will also add to this that the accusation (and not necessarily unsubstantiated) was made that Byler did everything in his power to force the other 5 primary contenders out of the race and completely clear the field for Rigell. In addition to favoring those with money – primaries favor squishy candidates and with no Dem. primary cross over vote is quite likely. Rigell would never have gotten the nomination if it had been a convention, because only genuinely committed and informed members of the party make the time to come out to those.
I love this. I’ve been screaming about the unfairness of this all week. Who does Scott think he is? Not the Debate Czar that’s for sure. We have a right to hear what EVERYONE has to say before we decide. Oh wait! That’s EXACTLY what Scott wants to avoid….the voters hearing for their own ears that Kenny is the better man for the job.
Maybe Kenny doesn’t have Scott’s “freedom” pockets, but he will out issue and debate him every time. Would be a shame to see Scott’s money fail to win this election, what kind of country are we living in anyway?
Wanna know what Scott’s office had to say to a question from a constituent about the debates? Here’s a line directly from the response email…. “a 3rd Party candidate may be interesting, but it is not, in our firm view, beneficial to the public in choosing the best candidate to vote for on November 2nd.” How’s THAT for big Government?? We know better then you do what’s right for you. Shame on you Scott.
@ Chris – couldn’t have summed it all up better myself.
I am a registered Republican, but I now identify myself as a Conservative. I’m always going to do what it takes to get/keep conservatives in and liberals out, but I don’t know how in good conscience I can remain loyal to the RPV when this stuff is being endorsed.
Thanks for saying what a few of us know, and everyone needs to hear!
The Republican Party of Virginia Beach was hijacked for wealthy opportunistic beaureaucrats by people who conditionally responded to the party leadership. Good people with wool pulled over their eyes continue to carry water and they are not objecting to the way the primary was handled because the RPVB and RPV continue to take them for granted.
We need business leaders in congress throughout most parts of Va but in the second district we need military business leadership. The military industrial complex in our region does not have time for the fraudulent crap that Obama’s lawyers are foisting on them before they relocate somewhere other than Va-02. Nice guy Scott Rigell does not leave the impression that he can stem the economic penalty because he does not know the territory within the pentagon and defense appropriation circles. Scott WILL NOT ANSWER QUESTIONS on this item because he is a lost babe in the woods without some handler guidance..
Not condemning Scotty but I can’t seem to get anything other than false promises to attend debates with the other two candidates. Scott, You promised me personally in Your own words that you will participate in debates with Kenny Golden AND Glenn Nye. Scott, were you speaking honestly or without authorization? You pulled me aside for a few words at FreedomFest that apparently were overheard by others and I was encouraged by your positive attitude and commitment to engage in debates without any reservations or preconditions.
May I respectfully ask, Scott, did you lie to me?
‘We Will Not Be Silenced’: Democrats Produce Documentary Alleging Rampant Vote Fraud by Obama Campaign vs. Hillary in 2008 Primaries
http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2010/07/11/we-will-not-be-silenced-democrats-produce-documentary-alleging-rampant-vote-fraud-by-obama-campaign-vs-hillary-in-2008-primaries/
@Govgirl
That may have been initially true, but from what I have seen and heard, it wasn’t a, “We have our guy don’t bother” it was more like, “You know Rigell is going to spend a million dollars and probably win; are you sure you want to possibly waste a lot of time and money?”
After it became clear the Kenny was going to run, it became advantageous to have so many candidates in the field. Kenny was the only one with the connections and the respect that could have beaten out Rigell, but with so many other candidates, no one could amass enough votes to topple him.
Just as a side note;
A lot of people say Bert could have done it if he “lived” in the district, blah blah blah. Bert definitely did live in the district and anyone who says he moved here just for this race must think Bert is an idiot. The guy has a Harvard Law Degree, if he was going to move here to run he would have moved to the beach where all the votes are.
If we vote Golden that will suck votes away from Rigell and Nye will win. If we do it next time we can nominate someone to take Nye on. I can wait two years. Yeah … simpistic, I know. Alas, I used to be a Republican…
Kenny Golden has $1,300 as of his 6/30/10 FEC report.
Kenny Golden polled under 3% among likely GOP voters in the much discussed Rigell benchmark poll of March (less than Scott Taylor-who mustered his traditional 8% in the primary).
After appearing in 5 debates and one “one-on-one” debate with Rigell, Kenny Golden betrayed the GOP and ran as an independent-defying the process. His ego clouds his every step.
Kenny Golden had two years of an “inside track” in order to gain the respect and the support of the local GOP-he garnered no support. Doesn’t that make any of you question Kenny’s claims? Does anyone think critically of Kenny Golden? Or do you all blindly follow Kenny’s claims while ignoring the leadership of EVERY ELECTED REPUBLICAN IN VB!?
George Allen refuses to support Kenny (his former UVA roommate)-why?
How about a post on complete lack of GOP transfer support of Golden from BD? Who joined him? I see not a soul from the leadership or the long term party. Why? How about a critical analysis of how in all the years of Kenny Golden’s service not one GOP leader backed his run for Congress? It seems like a valid question. We all know that most of our local VB GOP rarely unanimously agree on anything-yet they all agree-KENNY GOLDEN WAS NOT FIT FOR THEIR ENDORSEMENT.
Do you all so readily throw away the counsel of such strong conservative leaders? Apparently so-because if Kenny Golden said it’s a conspiracy to get him then it must be so. UNBELIEVABLE!
Does anyone here think critically?
Kenny Golden only has one distant hope-earned media-and he needs a fleet’s worth of it if even thinks he can muster more than Taylor’s 8% in a general election that will-let’s not forget-see Rigell and Nye combine to spend $6 million on this campaign.
He will be an afterthought. He is destined to be an “also ran” who will pull about 2-8% depending on how he runs his campaign and if he can raise money. Everything that politics has ever taught us will reveal this to be true. A candidate with no way of conveying his message and no discernable political base when the country is focused on trying to stem the tide of socialism and halt Reid/Pelosi/Obama will become irrelevant-but hey let’s put him on stage. He got signatures. Foolishness is the only word that comes to mind.
WHY ON EARTH WOULD RIGELL DEBATE THIS GUY?!!!!
I mean debate him again-six times debating a man isn’t exactly running away, but the blinders don’t allow for much more than tunnel vision by most of you.
If my neighbor got 7,000 signatures and jumped on the ballot with a paltry $1,300 not many would expect him to be included in a debate with an incumbent Congressman.
But my neighbor has something Kenny doesn’t-integrity.
Kenny Golden told people countless times he would drop if he didn’t hit benchmarks in terms of fund raising. He did not honor those words. Kenny Golden abandoned OUR PARTTY when he discerned he could not win for one reason-HIMSELF. If you ever talk to Kenny Golden it’s all about him. His resume, His conspiratorial philosophy of local politics-it’s all about keeping Kenny down. It’s narcissism to say the least.
Rigell better not debate this guy. Tactically it makes no sense. It provides a narcissist with an axe to grind a field to swing that axe at our nominee-not to mention he has zero chance of winning and can only harm the GOP and help keep Pelosi in office, but hey we should sink the ship because Kenny Golden couldn’t garner support from the local elected while holding a chairman’s post for two years. Great plan guys.
This is one of those strategic issues people bellow about, independent of party, when their opponent won’t do what they want them to do. Does Golden deserve to debate? Frankly, the answer is probably not. He had his shot and ducked out of the Republican race. This tactic of getting a second shot when it’s clear you won’t get past the first.
What’s funny though, is that if Rigell said he’d debate whenever, and Nye didnt want to, the same story would run with people in different roles. Love campains!
Thanks for some perspective “Anyone but Golden” Facts are a terrible thing to budge but hey conspiracies like the one Kenny wants us all the believe in don’t like facts.
Those who knew Kenny best from the GOP weighed him and found him wanting as a candidate in the primary.
He is now hoping that people who don’t know him can be manipulated into throwing away their vote away and Helping re-elect Glenn Nye and Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the House. I pray that No conservatives who love Bearing Drift, as I do, fall are caught in this Golden trap.
Seems to me that the reaction to the inclusion of Golden in the debate is overblown. I did not hear anyone saying that Golden was a threat to Rigell’s support, just that we, the voters, ought to have the opportunity to hear from him. Afterall, as posted herein, if he has such little financial support, and he failed to make his case, why would Rigell consider him a threat? Rigell is making this a story by his denial of a place in the debate for Golden, not the other way around.
The problem the local GOP had with Kenny was that he didn’t have enough money. They ALL admitted that Kenny was better qualified, none ever said that Rigell was more qualified, only that he had more money.
Who is the greater villain? The one who gives sanction to the sin of putting money over qualifications or the one who parts way with the party because of it.
If you all call it selfish to run because you feel the party has lost its way and your opponents are not even qualified to hold the job, then you need to go re-think the central tenets of what this country was founded on.
If men thought and acted as you propose, then this country wouldn’t last another year. As it is now we may be right around the corner from fiscal collapse.
If Kenny Golden is really such a gadfly, why give him so much free press and exposure at the expense of Rigell’s credibility?
You really think it is advantageous for Rigell and his supporters to spend time educating the general public of why Kenny is running? The more you argue about how selfish Kenny because he has a better resume and how he “abandoned our party” , the more the general public is going to like the guy.
No one who has ever managed a single political campaign – including you, Brian and JR – would EVER agree to any kind of debate with Golden if you were managing or advising Rigell’s campaign. Rigell wants one on one debates so he can hold Nye accountable for his actions in Congress. Scott would debate Nye every damn day. Unlike two years ago when Nye was a blank slate, Nye now has a horrible and indefensible record. It would be great for Rigell’s campaign so he’s not ducking debates and everyone knows it. Kenny is a ridiculous distraction and an egomaniac. Who gives a rat’s ass what he thinks? Look at his FEC reports – he’s not a real candidate in any sense of the word. Televised or not, the press coverage of a debate would still report what Kenny says – they have to if he’s there. This election is about the two candidates with a reasonable chance to win making their case to the voters. If Kenny wants to make his case, then go raise money, show you have some support and make a reasonable case for inclusion. Otherwise, you are a gadfly. Rigell is smart to make a stand on principle, and oh by the way his position is politically sound.
And, Mike Barrett, if you or anyone else wants to hear from Kenny Golden pick up the telephone and call him or go have a beer with him at his camapign office every Friday at 5 o’clock with the other two losers that think Golden should be in congressional campaign debates. This is not a campaign for an at-large city council seat in some po-dunk town. This is Congress – take it a little more seriously.
@Anyone but Golden & Ron.. http://www.facebook.com/#!/event.php?eid=106792392703416&ref=ts
and its too bad nobody shows up at Kenny Goldens town hall meetings.. http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Kenny-Golden-for-Congress/235850915459?ref=ts
Debate every day? Rigell has stated in several emails that he wants only 3 debates.
Not a candidate? He is a candidate by the only sense that matters; his name is legally on the ballot. He also happens to be the only candidate with active duty military experience in a district that has more military issues than any in the world.
Ron, your standard is money and money alone. It doesn’t take even half a brain to see how foolish your arguments are. I see Kenny signs everywhere I drive, so I guess he has no support what-so-ever. Those pictures on his Facebook must be faked.
@Chris “The problem the local GOP had with Kenny was that he didn’t have enough money. They ALL admitted that Kenny was better qualified, none ever said that Rigell was more qualified, only that he had more money.”
One of the most bizarre statements I’ve ever seen. ALL the local GOP? Who, can you name a single name?
Perhaps I would rather support a Republican like Scott Rigell who has actually CREATED JOBS. When unemployment is 10%, a job creator is what I want as my nominee. I applaud Kenny’s service, but the bottom line is he doesn’t know beans about the private sector — he’s never created a job his entire life. He doesn’t know the challenge of starting a small business. Scott Rigell does, and for that he had my support in the primary and in the general.
My minister loves to say that “opportunity does not always mean a calling.” I certainly wish someone would explain that to Mr. Golden.
Anyone but Golden, or is it Melody? Couple of facts for your fairy tale; the Rigell push poll said 4% without any, repeat, any adverstising, I didn’t put up any of my 300 4x4s or any of my 4400 yard signs in the primary. Polling indicated early in the primary of numbers around 27% but having so many military candidates ensured victory for your Boy. I’m not a fool and I believe he and Nye are not qualified so I did the smart thing and withdrew for another day. No Ego, just wisdom. Ego says you can’t subjugate yourself for others and yet I withdrew from a campaign to support others like Doc Welch, Chris Stolle, Leo Waldrup, Ken Stolle, Jeff McWaters, Barry Knight, Bob Tata, Terrie Suit, Thelma Drake, Bob Purkey, Chuck Smith, Sal Iaquinto, John Atkinson, Harvey Bryant, and lets not forget the Presidential Candidates and gubinatorial candidates and Attorney General candidates for six solid years. In 2008, I quit my DC job to return and handle the Chairmanship solely so we could have a chance. We won here in Va. Beach. We repeated that 10 times in 2009 to include the current Governor and his entire team. Not once in all those six years did I ever ask for one thing. Not once does my picture appear on the RPVB website, I forbade it. Not once has it ever appeared on the “Red Read”as well. I made a promise to the Governor not to run until he was elected, and kept it. I would do so again.
On conspiracy, you have never heard me speak of it and I won’t. I kept my council to myself on that issue while my friend Gary Byler was running for 2nd District Chair so as not to damage his chances.
On George Allen, he did and would have supported me but I didn’t ask him to endorse me. I had a picture of both he and I in our UVA football uniforms and I didn’t it use his because I wanted this all to be above board. We spoke warmly to each other at Freedom Fest and he’s still a great friend. The nomination for SECNAV from he and Sen. John Warner stand as testiment to their faith in me. It’s never been rescinded and never will.
Scott Rigell had early lead because I would not run while I was chair and he did exactly as I advised him and got every endorsement he could get but, and this my come as a surprise to you “ABG” but endorsements are about money. I never received any because I didn’t ask and I have no money to give, only time and service and I have done that in spades. On signatures, they are difficult to get and I got over 3700 to qualify on the ballot, most of them personally. I’m afraid your candidate didn’t come close to that. On debates, lets finally set the record straight, Scott only debated me one time, just once and he delayed that three times. When we finally met, the field was clearly mine because of knowledge and a superior record. On integrity, I’ll let 31 years of service to my country with an unbleminshed record and a combined 67 years in my immedidate family speak to your foolish charge.
GMU 2012, my family has been creating jobs here in this state since the early twenties. True, some of it was in illegal whiskey, so call me a Kennedy. Seriously, my family has owned and I have worked in a tractor business here in Virginia since 1961 and it still exists. 40% of our jobs here in Hampton Roads however depend on military, not car dealerships. Four years in legislative affairs in Washington and handling over $212 million per year in Pentagon budget cycles outweighs anything Nye or Rigell have had to contend with, most of that during the Clinton “Peace Dividend” years.
Three people on the podium this summer and fall will be just fine and will add depth and knowledge to our listeners and the process, to keep someone out is not our way.
GMU2012,
By all local GOP I meant all the elected officials. Why don’t you go ask them who they think is better qualified; Scott Rigell or Kenny Golden? I guarantee their answer will be something along the lines of, “Well Kenny does have the better resume, but he has no money so he doesn’t really factor in”
Wake up people. When electing your representative is only about money and not qualifications, then you need to re-check your premises about supporting a party.
Thanks Ron for setting me straight. I guess I forgot that to the Party, the candidate with the most money, who has sworn to take us back to the policies of the Bush administration, and who will vote lock, stock, and barrel with Cantor, is your definition of a serious candidate. First, I think Rigell needs lots of help debating Nye who has performed in admirable fashion for all of us, republicans, democrats, and independents in Hampton Roads. His defense of our military assets, his support for small business, and his aggressvie leadership for military members and their families is Owen Pickett like in its breadth and reach for us. Rigell will support more corporate power, more tax cuts for the wealth (like himself), and tepid support for military families. He will need Golden’s support in the debates to make any impact on Nye who made Thelma Drake, an incumbent, look silly and out of her depth.
Barrett, you’re so full of crap. Thelma kicked Nye’s ass in the debates and everyone who was at the debates all said, who is this poser Glenn Nye? He won on an Obama wave. If you’re too intellectually dishonest or frankly just too stupid to realize that then I have no idea how you can call yourself a successful businessperson.
And Rigell is more than the guy with the most money – he’s actually the guy with the most votes. And he’ll have the most votes again in November…
I’ve been following this thread from far-away Lancaster County in the Northern Neck. I read these back-and-forths with dismay. It appears to me that our chances of beating Nye are getting slimmer by the day. Sometimes, wounds take a long time to heal. I really can’t speak to who is “right” about this or that. But, this is not just a wound, but a gash. And those require stitches–and in this case maybe even triage. And we are out of time for that. Looks like this district stays in the Dem column. Good luck and fortune to all involved.
Well Ron, thanks for such a cogent analysis. But saying something simply does not make it so. At the forum sponsored by the HRCC, and attended by a largely republican audience of business people who you would expect to be pro Drake and pro incumbent, the audience reaction was more positive to Nye than it was to Drake. Now of course, the Bush policies were not exactly popular at that time, and Drake was simply a foot soldier in the Cheney/Bush movement, but Nye exploited that in a penetratring fashion and won over the audience of business leaders, who of course are considered by the republican leadership to be RINOs and not really republicans. But many will be voting Nye to avoid going back to the policies of Cheny/Bush who got us into the mess to begin with.
I looked at Rigell’s site as to whether he has a position on the recommendation to eliminate Joint Forces Command in Hampton Roads to cut Defense spending. This would be almost as devastating to our economy as losing a carrier.
All our local Congressmen – Republican and Democrat have come out with their positions and both Senators and Gov. McDonnell have weighed in.
http://www.dailypress.com/news/military/dp-nws-jfcom-0724-20100723,0,6753523.story
Where’s Scott… does he think this is a good idea to cut Defense spending?
Kenny, do you have a position on eliminating JFCOM since at one time you worked there and have an appreciation for what they contribute to the warfighter?
More important than the jobs, is whether the Joint Forces Command is really needed. If not, close it down. We need to cut unnecessary parts of the Defense budget as well as other areas, if we are ever going to get control of the national debt. If it is needed, then obviously it should be kept. I doubt if we really need it, just like we really don’t need boots on the ground in 130 or whatever number of countries in the world. I suppose I am in the minority on this issue, as usual.
Speaking of debates..
“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.”
I Corinthians 14:34-35
Rumor has it the church Rigell and McWaters bought preaches this doctrine. Does the GOP nominee share beliefs with regard to the role & status of women similar to those of Saudi’s?
kingsmoothie, at least you asked the right question.
It is always lets raise taxes but not my taxes.
Lets cut government benefits but not my benefits.
It is just human nature.
I remember some years back when wise people like you warned about social security. They said that it needed to be fixed or there would be big trouble down the road. The fix was to raise ss taxes a bit and decrease benefits a bit. That would have taken care of the problems for a couple hundred years.
But the politicians both Democratic and Republican lacked the courage to do this. And the American people lacked the courage to force them.
This country faces a financial crisis. The federal government needs to stop deficit spending now. Soon no one will buy federal debt.
What happens then ???
Here are my predictions for when no one will buy federal debt.
40 to 60% unemployment, 1/2 of all businesses will close their doors, the US GDP will drop by 50%, federal tax rates will range from 30 to 70%, and financial assets such as stocks and houses will lose 90% of their value.
I would like to put that way of life off for as long as possible.
I have 2 goals. To get the democrats out of power in Congress in 2010 and a new president in 2012.
I believe we need term limits for congress. 2 terms for a senator and 2 to 4 terms for a congressman. This country can no longer afford Professional Politicians like Charles Rangel.
I got this in my email box today from Kenny’s campaign. Its his response to the proposed closing of joint forces command.
Kenny Responds to Proposed Scrapping of US Joint Forces Command
Virginia Beach, VA –The Defense Business Board (DBB), a group of independent advisors to the Pentagon, has recommended closing Norfolk based Joint Forces Command to reduce costs in the Department of Defense.
Independent Second District Congressional Candidate Kenny Golden, however, disagrees with the assessment:
“Although JFCOM has never been given the authority by the DOD or combatant commands to accomplish its mission, getting rid of it will not eliminate the need for jointness in our armed forces. If we scrap it now, we will have to re-create it in a different form and at a massive cost to taxpayers.”
The current 2010 operating budget for JFCOM is $704 million and it employs over 5000 people in Hampton Roads according to the Daily Press. Elimination of the command would be a serious blow to the local economy.
Golden served as Deputy and Department Head in both the J5 (Strategy and Plans) and J8 (Strategy and Requirements) directorates and was the command briefer for three years as US Joint Forces Command made the transition from US Atlantic Command in the years from 1998 to 2000.
“The problem is not JFCOM,” according to Golden, “but rather the combatant commands and the Joint Staff not wanting to give up money, influence, and the authority that should have been given with the crucially important job of coordinating all joint activities.”
“The first thing we need to do,” Golden said, “is give JFCOM the capabilities and authority it needs to carry out its mission, then we can worry about eliminating duplication and unnecessary personal. If the goal is to reduce defense spending, we need to start with the Office of the Secretary of Defense (OSD) and work our way down.”
According to The Hill Newspaper, the OSD roster has grown by over 700 since 2000. Currently it employs more than 5000 people and has an annual budget of $5.5 billion. While the DBB report suggests a hiring freeze at OSD and the combatant commands, Golden believes it is not enough:
“A hiring freeze is a good place to start, but what we really need is a complete independent audit of the entire DOD to see exactly where we stand in terms of contractor support, program duplication, and misplaced areas of responsibility. Right now the Pentagon does not even have a total head count of everyone it employs. This is simply an unacceptable situation.”
Thanks Chris for sharing this. Now Scott probably won’t say anything or take a position now because it will “look” like a “me too” response subordinate to the unified position that Kenny, the other Hampton Roads Congressmen, Senators and Gov. McDonnell have taken. Or maybe Scott feels that losing 5,000 people and $700M in Hampton Roads isn’t a big deal because those people that work there don’t drive Freedom automobiles?
Lets not forget that Kenny authored the resolution that the house of delegates passed in regards to keeping the carriers in Hampton Roads. Kenny has shown real leadership, what have Nye and Rigell shown?
I am predicting Rigell will continue to struggle for the next few months. The GOP is not the big happy family under one tent that the rpvb used to be.
Scotty has the money. Big money. And a deep pocket. The independent voter base is expanding and is not excited about putting an unproven RINOcerous in congress.
Oh for Pete’s sake, Chris, all Nye has done is to create a bipartisan effort that has resulted in the Navy all but reversing their decision by his relentless focus on how this was a Bush political decision that will cost billions of dollars and is completely unnecessary. Further, he spotlighted the Navy’s own inability to justify this strategic decision. Frankly, he and Randy Forbes and others have done exactly what they should have done, and attempts to suggest otherwise is ridiculous on its face.
It wasn’t long ago that I recently became involved in the Republican Party, something I had never done before because I consider myself a conservative, not a party politic, but I feared for the future of my country so I got involved. I never understood why Gary Byler didn’t convention our primary, until now.
I heard the angry reaction during the primary about the candidate being pre-selected, but not having been involved in party politics previously, I was unable to find out and comprehend exactly how it had been predetermined. I will say that, at convention and Monday night meetings, there were plenty of ticked off people at how the process had been pre-determined. But I could never get an answer as to why or what. I sought out those “in the know,” but they were unapproachable. I sought those who were approachable, but they couldn’t even answer questions as to what the responsibilities are for a delegate or precinct captain in the “Party,” much less WTH was lining up in the primary.
I saw the anger but had no information to help me comprehend the ire. Now I know, and I wish I could retract my vote for Gary Byler.
Kenny Golden didn’t run “from” anything – he took a stand. He rejected political machinations.
I have watched and listened to Scotty – when he deigned to make himself available, that is. The few Saturday morning breakfasts that he attended, he was unfocused, stood on nothing, and basically rambled incomprensible nonsense. It became clear that he was a Martha Coakley, in that he knew he didn’t need to do much of anything because he had already been guaranteed the nomination.
I understand the concept of “Vote conservative in the Primary, Republican in the General,” and I do subscribe to that – but only to a point.
Kenny Golden will get my vote in the General. We either get this country back to its roots, or continue on with political party cronyism scratch-my-back-I’ll scratch-yours that led us into this debacle we face today.
Thank you for this very interesting discussion. The author’s article and subsequent commentary helped me define my focus because I finally found answers to questions I had been asking since early this year.
[...] Rigell willing to duck debates with Nye | Bearing Drift: Virginia Politics On Demand [...]
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