Lingamfelter vs. Liberty?

Si vis pacem, para bellum — military historians, veterans, and our Founding Fathers would have recognized such sentiments and the times that produced them.  So when that sacrifice isn’t respected, one can only imagine how those walking the wall might take exception.

Let’s review the details.  Former Navy SEAL Chris Kyle is shot by a former Marine suffering from PTSD.

Ron Paul’s response?


Scott Lingamfelter — a former Army colonel — didn’t just take umbrage… he took aim.  

From his release:

I served 28 years in the United States Army. I swore a sacred oath on the same Constitution that Congressman Ron Paul did. It sickens me that our party — the party of Reagan — could put on a Republican stage a candidate who holds our party, our process, our principles and our nation in such utter contempt.

Today, I call upon all my fellow Republicans, especially Ken Cuccinelli, our Attorney General candidates, and my opponents for Lieutenant Governor to publically and definitively repudiate Dr. Paul’s position regarding this American hero.

As one of our most revered GOP ancestors said, “A house divided against itself cannot stand.” Our Republican house is divided. It’s not Conservatism that needs fixing; it’s our leaders that need fixing. Any leader who in essence spits on the grave of a soldier who swore an oath to defend our Constitution, our nation, our people – any man or those that follow him that adheres to such disgust for our servicemen as Dr. Paul apparently has, is worthy of utter disdain.  (emphasis original)

…and with one heartfelt expression, Lingamfelter probably cost himself the nomination.

Why?  Because Ron Paul supporters in particular took deepest offense.  Anti-liberty, defending Ron Paul’s statement, deploring violence — and it’s no small secret that Ron Paul supporters (particularly those friendly to Susan Stimpson) have been running a black-ops campaign against Lingamfelter for months.

Of course, these rogue Ron Paul supporters are 100% wrong to attack Lingamfelter.  Something to consider:

(1) Lingamfelter is a veteran.
(2) Lingamfelter is an Army officer.
(3) Lingamfelter knows a lot of fine individuals who live by the sword.
(4) …and die by the sword.
(5) So that you don’t have to.

Nevertheless, Lingamfelter is savvy enough to know that by coming out with such a statement in a convention atmosphere, he has more than likely cost himself the Lieutenant Governor nomination.  Ron Paul supporters will be slow to forgive.

Ron Paul’s apology was interesting in its own right:

“As a veteran, I certainly recognize that this weekend’s violence and killing of Chris Kyle were a tragic and sad event. My condolences and prayers go out to Mr. Kyle’s family. Unconstitutional and unnecessary wars have endless unintended consequences. A policy of non-violence, as Christ preached, would have prevented this and similar tragedies. -REP”

Short version: Violence begets violence.

Such a statement wouldn’t raise even so much as an eyebrow if said in a benign environment.  But say it just after the death of an American hero?  After he was counselling a former Marine suffering from PTSD?

Chris Kyle’s brother Jeff put it best:

“Above all else, Chris was a unique individual, an amazing loving father, husband, son, brother, friend and devout Christian who had a profound effect on the lives of those that he touched. Chris was publicly known for being the president of Craft International and the author of the best-selling book ‘American Sniper.’ Chris, a former Navy SEAL, served four combat tours in operation Iraqi Freedom and elsewhere.

“We’re all saddened by his tragic death. And America has truly lost one of its finest sons and a true patriot,” Kyle added.

Ron Paul’s point was simple.  Violence encourages more of the same.  Ineloquently expressed?  Definitely…

That same grace in interpreting Ron Paul’s statements most certainly should be applied in interpreting the righteous anger of Scott Lingamfelter.  Any combat veteran would react similarly to any inference that America’s heroes deserve violence.

Let’s be clear.  Our soldiers are protecting us from the violence of others.  Lingamfelter may not have made a politically calculated move, but then again… this wasn’t about political calculus — it was about honor.

  • See, #5 on your list is simply wrong. It’s not “so you don’t have to [die]”. It’s for entirely different purposes which have nothing at all to do with national security, preserving American lives, or any other legitimate reason.

    You want proof? Ask yourself why we spend more on military than the rest of the world combined yet can’t even hold onto our own southern border. We’ve actually officially ceded significant amounts of territory to drug cartels from northern Mexico, creating “no-go for American citizens” zones in places like southern Arizona. Given that that border is a total sieve, where’s the security? It’s a farce.

    Or ask yourself, how in the name of pursuing this alleged anti-terrorism strategy we ended up in a situation where US arms have been and continue to be shipped to Al-Qaida in Libya, Syria, and elsewhere. Weren’t they supposed to be the enemy? Why are they getting US weapons from the US government?
    The War on Terror is a crock of shit and anyone not still drowning in war propaganda knows it.

    In fact, these misadventures put Americans at MORE risk. When we invade, overthrow, occupy etc. other nations we radicalize populations and create enemies that never need have been created. That exposes Americans to risk of retaliatory strikes, such as 9/11, that we would not have been exposed to otherwise.

    And that’s why the military is not honored as it once was, because it really isn’t them dying so we don’t have to, and hasn’t been since the end of the Cold War.

    • pinecone321

      “Or ask yourself, how in the name of pursuing this alleged anti-terrorism
      strategy we ended up in a situation where US arms have been and
      continue to be shipped to Al-Qaida in Libya, Syria, and elsewhere.
      Weren’t they supposed to be the enemy? Why are they getting US weapons
      from the US government?”

      Do you even have a clue of who is in fact supplying those weapons to the radical islamists, oooops, sorry, the freedom fighters in the middle east? Do you even have the first clue?

      “The War on Terror is a crock of shit and anyone not still drowning in war propaganda knows it.”

      Spoken as only a true Ron Paul cultist could/would. Ron Paul, shortly after the 9/11 terrorist attacks said that the hijackers were only a bunch of thugs with boxcutters. He said that the radical islamist threat was only a made up threat, just as the threat of Communists was just made up in the 50’s and 60’s. Our federal government has been infiltrated with both radical islamists, or muslim brotherhood supporters. You again participate in Paul double speak when you then go on to talk about the US shipping arms to our enemies in Libya, Syria and elsewhere. What part of the progressive campaign do you not get. What part of the now out of the closet Communist Party USA have you and Ron Paul missed?

      Too take it further, you have slammed our military members calling them mercenaries, killers and naifs, yet you at the same time scream from the rooftops that the majority of our military members are Ron Paul supporters. Again, no military member has been forced into the military for decades, they join willingly. If they joined willingly in a time of war, but support Ron Paul because of his anti-war positions, you have identified the same that must be considered sociopathics, and those there just for a free ride to an education or whatever.

      Yes we know, Ron Paul and his footsoldiers have gone from campus to campus promising legal pot and every other drug imaginable, in addition to an unencumbered life as a prostitute. Lord knows Obama has killed off as many jobs as he can, and if the only thing you have to sell is your body, no worries. Hey at least your earning money. Don’t worry about diseases, and don’t worry about abortion, it’s a women’s right to choose. Her body is her “property.” He also promises the young and impressionable that they will never have to defend their country. Yup, according to Ron Paul the country is responsible for all the ills of the world, go smoke a bong. Peace brotha.

      The only thing I’m surprised at with Ron Paul is that he isn’t wearing tie dyed, and he hasn’t yet made public his support for going back to the Articles of Confederation. His best bud, and chief of staff Lew Rockwell stated that the Framers were a bunch of old rich white guys that centralized federal government in order to benefit themselves.

      • Look up “stop-loss” and STFU with your ignorant ranting already. I don’t respect your ignorant opinions in the slightest and am not bothering to do any more than skim them for the worst offenses to common sense.

        • pinecone321

          Thank you for your response Alexis Rose, you prove my point better than I ever could. I won’t say that all Ron Paul supporters as as rabidly into the cult of Ron Paul, but you sure portray one of the worst. I knew if I posted as I did I would surely get the nasty, cold, vitriolic, cursing response from you that you sure didn’t disappoint with. I beg you to please carry on Alexis, and post as you do. I love every minute of it.

  • Donald

    “Our soldiers are protecting us from the violence of others.”

    Always that and only that? That sort of begs the question that Ron Paul has kept quixotically putting to his own party for years: do we have to assume every war we fight is the right choice?

    Our soldiers are no doubt willing to protect us, and no doubt that’s why they chose to serve – but what they are doing, in the first instance, is obeying orders. That’s true all the way up the chain to the joint chiefs. The armed forces take orders from the civilian government, which represents us. We are not off the hook.

    It’s far too often, particularly when a political advantage is to be had, that a person cannot criticize policy — the thing that sends soldiers somewhere — without being accused of personally betraying “the troops.” It’s a cheap argument and it ought to be abandoned.

  • I have a feeling most of the people actively going after Lingamfelter with their misguided outrage probably weren’t going to vote for him anyway, so I’m not sure how much it really hurts him.

    • It doesn’t hurt him. Lingamfelter is grabbing at straws by going after the supposedly nut-case Ron Paul. Signs of desperation? Indeed.

  • Lingamfelter vs Liberty is not a new thing. Remember the Tracy Thorne-Begland mess? The guy has is agenda, and that’s fine. Count me out of it.

    • Guest

      And just because is a veteran doesn’t make him unassailable. Live by sword, die by the sword.

  • Let’s see. Just because Linghafelter is a veteran means everything he thinks, says and espouses is beyond reproach? Hogwash. His actions and statements in the whole Tracy Thorne-Begland (another veteran) were absolutely inexusable. [Oh, I forgot, that is a taboo issue here at BD] If this guy gets the nomination for Lt. Governor, I am campaigning for the Dem no matter who it is. Actually, I won’t have to do. He does it for himself.

  • Wow, I thought I was going to have to argue common sense on this thread all by myself against a bunch of war-addicted neocons, and lo and behold it turns out I’m not the only one who gets it. Bravo, fellow commenters.

    • pinecone321

      Alexis Rose, you wouldn’t know what “common sense” was if it bit you in the butt. Calling the military members mercenaries, killers and losers is nothing more than trashing those that have allowed you to post the crap that you do.m Of course you can depend on Ron Paul’s idea of a few good submarines to protect you if you wish. You are so brainwashed it is actually funny.

      • Your panic as you watch your precious bloodthirst be revealed for the evil it is is truly a great pleasure to me. “My precious! My precious!”

        • Lynn R. Mitchell

          Oh, brother. The drama….

          • MD Russ


            Even in a mental hospital, you will seldom be lonely.

    • No. You’re not the only one.

  • statement is why Scott Lingamfelter will not be Lieutenant Governor of Virginia:

    “It sickens me that our party could put on a Republican stage a candidate (Ron Paul) who holds our party, our process, our principles and our nation in such utter contempt.”

    Ron Paul is a national hero, and a political icon. He has a legacy of integrity and a following that pursues the cause of liberty

    • MD Russ

      Baloney. Ron Paul is a charlatan who uses Big Lies to further his moronic notions of how our country needs to return to the 19th Century. When he ran for President as a Libertarian, he throughly repudiated his integrity as a Republican and, as such, should be shunned forever by the Party of Lincoln.

      There is one and only one thing that I admire about Democrats: when Ralph Nader gave them the middle finger salute and ran as a Green Party candidate, he was banished forever by the Democrats. Ron Paul deserves no less. The “big tent” is not to be found among the extremists. Let them go. They can either vote for the Republican candidate or waste their vote by jerking off for some 5-percenter.

  • How is this kind of red meat bashing Ron Paul going to cost him any votes at the convention? Seems to me that is exactly what this vitriolic statement is designed to do.

  • And since when is anything Ron Paul has said or is now saying of importance to the people here at Bearing Drift? Why is this such a contre-temps all of a sudden? Making a mountain out of mole hill for what purpose?

    • These are the last gasps of the morally, intellectually, and electorally failed “neoconservatism” (Woodrow Wilson’s foreign policy injected like a disease into the Republican Party, basically) trying to justify itself.

      Time to kill it off and restore the Republican Party to what it once was, the one that knew the wisdom of George Washington’s warnings about entangling alliances.

      • MD Russ


        What an insight to Washington’s thinking! That explains why he rejected French and German assistance during the Revolution–couldn’t have those pesky ‘entangling alliances’ getting in the way of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

        (Yes, I can recite Washington’s Farewell Address almost from memory and you are badly mangling both his intent and the context of his remarks on foreign alliances. You constantly remind me of a very literal person who can read but can’t think.)

  • Lingamfelter will be just fine. He mentioned “Reagan”. FREE PASS!

  • Chris Beer

    My problem wasn’t with his attacking Ron Paul, it was the rest of his release that he basically stated he wants to remove Paul supporters from the party. THAT I have a huge problem with. But I guess throwing your Army rank in everyone’s face and saying “Reagan” over and over is what Lingamfelter thinks a real Republican is.

    • Now that much is true… but then again, that has a lot to do with the rivalry with Stimpson. On the surface it looks friendly, but among the activists? Way too hot…

      • Chris Beer

        I get the feeling if enough RP people show up, and they showed up last year to a convention that had no candidates for elected office, Stimpson will shock people at how well she does.

      • Well you better lump Corey Stewart in with Stimpson if you want to bash Paul supporters. It appears that the RP supports lined behind Lingamfelter has bolted and split for Stimpson and Stewart. Just sayin.

        • Really? I was wondering who these people are and where they really stand on things. I’ve gotten two very slick mailing pieces from Snyder (why I don’t know, frequent voter list I guess). Impressive until he said he couldn’t wait to run on Cucinelli’s ticket. So now, tell me about that last woman standing, Stimpson. As for Lingamfelter. FORGET IT.

  • pinecone321

    Shaun, I disagree that Lingamefelter blew his shot at the Lt. Gov. nom with his statement, he has been on the bottom of the list in polls here, and elsewhere in VA.. A concerted effort against his campaign by the Stimpson people is like the last loser calling the next to last loser the loser. It’s like saying that you have no chance so you will insure that your competition has no chance either. We saw that same tactic used in the last US Senator race as well. It’s unfortunate that so many of the Ron Paul supporters have taken a page out of the Alinsky playbook.

    • What is worse is the loss was so predictable. Lets not screw this one up too.

  • pinecone321

    The Ron Paul supporters don’t have the lock on “Liberty”, as much as they try to claim they do. It’s simply a term they grabbed onto to sell Paul’s propaganda. Think about this for a moment- Ron Paul and his supporters are avidly pushing the Paul doctrine which is as dictatorial as the Obama admin. This is what I tell you you are to believe/think is the message. You cannot demand that citizens support your cause/positions without becoming as dictatorial as that which wants to push their own agenda. The strongest on the block is not the solution, but damn don’t tell them that.

  • The tea party Ron Paul zealots that are bringing distruction to the sound principles of the movement and embarass conservatives at large continue to remain in the minority. It is not like we are winning elections in Virginia with them. Scott Lingamfelter’s courage to repudiate Mr. Paul’s callous comments demonstrates the mainstream conservative position of a heroic veteran. I also await remarks from the AG and all candidates to condem Ron Paul and to distance themselves a man clearly out of touch with reality.

    • EricMcGrane

      Extremey extremists act radically and extreme and dangerously espouse extremely extreme radical extremey agendas.

      Its totally radical (and dangerously scary and extreme)

    • Daniel, you are insulting many Cuccinelli, Stimpson and Obenshain supporters and volunteers with that back biting.

      • EricMcGrane

        He knows what he’s doing. He’s intentionally broad-brushing entire groups of people to diminish their branding/names. 5 seconds ago he was fabricating a faux “Tea Party for George Allen” group to LEVERAGE the brand to bolster establishment-Allen, but since the election is over, its now time to DIMINISH that same brand in an attempt to elevate the GOP.

        Yeah, we noticed. Doesnt speak well to individual character and credibility.

      • James it is my hope the AG, Stimpson and Obenshain would respect the principle of Lingamfelter’s action. As I Vietnam veteran I understand totally…politics aside….Part of the problem is we can’t put politics aside. A tragic issue occured and a patriot is dead. I do find Ron Paul’s words reprehensible. I hope they do as well. And they are Patriots for not supporting Paul’s words in this case. And this case it what I am speaking to. Thanks James.

  • pinecone321

    The Ron Paul space ship has arrived, and the occupants have descended. Too funny.

  • Let’s see how the Stimpson candidacy does once all the facts are put on the table about her record. Btw, if your a Libertarian there is a Party for you and since you don’t get it we are Republicans. Just like so many Ron Paul folks who took an OATH and said they would support the Republican nominee and then went to Gary Johnson or sat on their hands and did nothing for the Republican ticket. Websters says that is the definition of a liar. Or doesn’t oath and honor mean something to these folks, guess not…Lastly, like that little piece of crap threat after the August 4th meeting of SCC, you voted for….and we know who you are …..well kids it works both ways. As a good friend of mine says, come and get some.

    • “Btw, if your a Libertarian there is a Party for you and since you don’t get it we are Republicans.” Two can play this game. If you are a Conservative there is a Party for you and since you don’t get it we are Republicans.

      Michael, man up and lets discuss why republicans are losing the majority now..

      • Well said James.

      • MD Russ

        Bad news, Turbo. The Libertarians are not the dominate voting block in the Republican Party. They just want people to believe that they are some kind of huge movement and take control of the Republican Party to make themselves mainstream. Personally, that is an outcome that I would welcome. Then, the Republican Party would fade away as an irrelevant third party as the moderate former Republicans formed a new second party that would resemble the Rockefeller Republicans.

        The problem with the Libertarians and the Paulistinians is that they constantly proclaim an exaggerated presence and following, either because of self-delusion or because of intentional deception. Either way, it isn’t working.

        • Guest

          I think, Russ, the only here who is self-delusional is you. You did watch the elections returns last November, didn’t you? Do you know what year it is? Can you tell us who is the President? These are basic sanity checks for most people in shock or early dementia. Maybe should go in for a check up.

        • I think, Russ, the only one here who is self-delusional is you. You did
          watch the elections returns last November? Do you know what
          year it is? Can you tell us who is the President? How is all that working for you? These are basic sanity
          checks for most people in shock or early dementia. Maybe you should go in
          for a check up. Real soon.

    • There is a significant part within me that wants to leave the Republican Party to die and rot while government-loving Republicans keep trying to convince other people that they’re for limited government. But I care too much about human beings to let either party run them over.

  • Preface: I supported Ron Paul for the nomination in 2012 after Gary Johnson’s exit from the field.

    Now, while I do not adhere to the whole of his take, I sympathize with Paul’s disdain for the myriad of unethical actions undertaken in the name of US foreign policy. But I’m not going to defend what he said because what he said should not be defended. I will only say that I don’t believe that he said it with any particular malice, only absent judgement regarding his word choice; after all, that is Ron Paul in a nutshell.

    What really irks me about this entire ordeal is Lingamfelter’s unnecessarily broad attack on Ron Paul (repudiation is fine, perhaps even merited). To claim that Paul hold’s “our nation in such utter contempt” is uncalled for, given that Paul is the most passionate candidate to walk the halls of Congress in decades, or longer (and anyone not holding the current GOP and its processes in contempt isn’t paying attention). It appears to me as though Lingamfelter doesn’t like Ron Paul, his policies, or his supporters, and has harnessed this opportunity in an attempt to deal a blow to their influence within the party.

    This all stems from the larger issue within RPV that we are all doubtless familiar with. On the one side there sits the lock-and-step Republicans, who think that the GOP can do no wrong and will always vote for a Demo-er..candidate so long as they have an ‘R’ beside their name. On the other is the Ron Paul faction, a great many of whom worship the man like a deity. Stuck in the middle are those of us actually trying to get something accomplished.

    • EricMcGrane

      (waves to you from that middle)

    • Very few in the Ron Paul faction worship the man like a diety. Most actually disagree with him on one policy or another.

      Paul is deeply appreciated for:

      a) his integrity, 30 years in the wilderness trying to get the federal government to act in a Constitutional manner, even if it meant he was the 1 vote repeatedly in measures passed 434-1.

      b) his deep knowledge of history and economics

      c) the fact that he respects regular people enough to say what he believes is the truth, regardless of whether it is popular to say

      d) that his positions originate from clear thinking about policies, not from focus-group and poll testing, and not from gut-level emotional reactions

      What he’s not as widely appreciated for, but should be, is that he’s brought into the GOP the next generation it needs to survive. I don’t know about the rest of you, but until the Paul revolution, every GOP event was a sea of gray hair. Ron Paul has given the GOP a chance to be a winning party again, despite that much of the party spits at him for it.

  • Sean,

    “and it’s no small secret that Ron Paul supporters (particularly those
    friendly to Susan Stimpson) have been running a black-ops campaign
    against Lingamfelter for months”

    I’ve seen you make a comment similar to this before. I’ll just accept I have my head in the sand. Can you elucidate on the nature of this rogue black-ops campaign?

    I would rather a candidate I support be judged on a sincere carefully presented message, than be judged on the messaging from unlicensed proxies.

  • DJRippert

    Ron Paul’s Tweet is two sentences long. The first sentence is poorly worded and creates the impression that Mr. Paul is anti-combatant rather than anti-war. This is the sentence that gets all the attention. However, it is the second sentence that caught my eye. “Treating PTSD at a firing range doesn’t make sense.”. Dr. Paul is certainly right with that comment. Chris Kyle’s killer – Eddie Ray Routh – was a deeply disturbed man who had recently been treated as an inpatient at a VA psychiatric hospital. When the hospital wanted to release Mr. Routh his mother begged the VA not to release him. However, they did release him. Mr. Kyle and a friend took Mr. Routh to a rural shooting range to “help him”. However, the deeply disturbed Mr. Routh turned his weapon on the two men trying to help him in an apparent effort to steal Mr. Kyle’s black truck. After the killings Mr. Routh reportedly said that he had traded his soul for a new black truck.

    Even the most ardent supporter of the Second Amendment agrees that mentally disturbed people should not be given access to guns. However, this is exactly what happened here. While Mr. Kyle had only the best intentions his actions directly resulted in the death of himself and a friend.

    The first sentence of Ron Paul’s Tweet is deplorable. However, the second sentence is something to remember…. “Treating PTSD at a firing range doesn’t make sense.”.

    Second amendment supporters would be well advised to praise Mr. Kyle’s life, service to his country and efforts to help troubled veterans while criticizing his decision to put a loaded weapon into the hands of a mentally unbalanced man.

  • I’d like to know where Shaun gets his insider info on the thousands of independent voices who support Ron Paul and/or Susan Stimpson.

    Scott Lingamfelter was my 2nd choice until last week by the way. Thought you might like to get one more piece of insider information.

    • The only thing I would for Mr. Lingamfelter to do is GO AWAY.

    • Second place is the first loser.

    • You guys leak like nothing else I’ve seen… plus, I’ve discovered you hate one another about as much as you hate establishment folks. Odd.

  • As a former RP staffer, I wrote a piece on this subject several days ago. Did I approve of Ron Paul’s message? No. But I certainly didn’t think much of Lingamfelter’s attack on him.

  • John Hardy Willson

    Do you know whose laughing? The Democrats.

  • Red Virginia Patriot

    Lingamfelter will be just fine. It’s absurd to think that because Scott stood up for what he believes (Like Libertarians love Ron Paul for doing) that he is going to lose the convention election. It’s just not true. If Stimpson knew how to run a real campaign she wouldn’t have to fight and crawl her way to a fifth place finish and perpetuate stupid things like this Lingamfelter story.

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