About That Allen Tea Party Support…
By Shaun Kenney | Wednesday, November 30th, 2011 | VirginiaTea Party organizations loyal to U.S. Senate candidate Jamie Radtke are in a tailspin this week over the campaign manager’s stepping down and now hollow claims that Tea Party support isn’t lining up behind former Governor George Allen.
Eric Odom investigates the claims:
Karen Hurd, President of the Northern Virginia Tea Party, said George Allen is falsely claiming to have tea party support. “he’s trying to make it look like he’s got this great big groundswell of grassroots support. He does not.” Hurd suggested many names on the list of Allen’s release do not fully support Allen and did not give permission to be listed.
After a few phone calls, however, I found most names on the list were very much in support of George Allen. Michelle Stanley of the Richmond Patriots, for example, confirmed she had indeed endorsed Allen and said she believed the list was legitimate. Stanley, who is also a blogger here at CampaignTrailReport.com, believes the Northern Virginia Tea Party and VA Federation are fully in support of candidate Jamie Radkte.
Supposedly the release of “Patriots for Allen” was only a fraction of the names collected, and as news of increasing turmoil in the Radtke camp combines with a horrible Radtke FEC filing showing a debt almost 200% of Radtke’s cash-on-hand, Allen staffers have had tremendous success in gaining quiet Tea Party support…
It’s only got to hurt more to see the handful of Tea Party names go “nuh-uh!” only to have the press call names on the list… and find out that Tea Partiers are enthusiastically supporting Allen, with a few die-hards holding out.
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Shaun Kenney is the Chairman of the Fluvanna County Board of Supervisors, former Communications Director for the Republican Party of Virginia, and an active blogger since 2002. Shaun lives in Thomas Jefferson's backyard with his wife, six children, and a modest attempt at a farm in Kents Store, Virginia.
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25 Responses to "About That Allen Tea Party Support…"
Hold on. Is it true that Karen Hurd is a paid political consultant to Radtke’s campaign? Karen Hurd, who heads the VA Tea Party Alliance PAC? Is there confirmation of this?
Are there two Karen Hurd’s? The one I know is from Hampton Roads and runs a Tea Party PAC.
Regardless, when a few folks started to claim that it wasn’t them on the list of Allen supporters, that was a bad move. It made what might have been a blip into a bigger story. Now you have folks actively looking for how large Allen’s support might be among Tea Partiers – and that list might very well grow, publicly.
Her debt is a major issue for me. I understand that in a campaign, sometimes you go into debt in the last week or so to get your winning message out. But IF you are a candidate who chooses to go into debt, you should only do so if you have a high probability of being able to meet your obligations. Radtke may know something I don’t, but from where I sit, her level of debt doesn’t look very fiscally responsible to me.
So Shaun, just because I sing in a conservative christian chior does that make me a conservative christian?
And here all this time I though Turbo was singing back-up for Motorhead…
$80K+ in debt with $40K+ in cash is a BAD sign… invites the question as to whether or not she would run the government as poorly as her campaign.
And it makes the attacks on Allen’s backbench votes ring awfully hollow.
What’s worse for the Tea Party are the purity tests — many of those names have been brutally badgered by those who consider themselves the Tea Party elite.
The secret meetings in the woods, the expensive conventions, the prohibitive cost to get involved ($110 last weekend for the Richmond event? ouch…) and the vitriolic attacks from a very tiny few against the conservative whole really has brought into question who really leads the movement. Most hardcore activists still look to stalwarts such as Cuccinelli and Marshall as champions on issues that matter.
The so-called leaders today may not have as firm a grip on the reins as they once thought they did, I suspect. The candidacies of Donner, Jackson, and McCormick have demonstrated that amply.
The way I see this is that there is reality and there is perception, and the Allen camp is clearly playing a perception game, as are contributors to Bearing Drift (apparently).
Look, seriously, let’s get real for a second, if you honestly believe that Allen has a lot of TEA party support in Virginia you REALLY need to get out more. That’s a non-starter, and you can write whatever you want about it but I mean seriously, you’re just BS’ing people if you think the TEA party is behind Allen in any major way.
Given that, the rest of this is just about who can BS the public that isn’t paying close attention to what is going on. I get that Mr. Allen’s campaign would want to increase doubt about Mrs. Radtke’s very solid TEA party support as much as he can, make divisions where possible, etc, I get it, but let’s be clear, those are tactics to BS people, cause turmoil, confuse the issue, etc, and have absolutely not one thing in this world to do with the reality on the ground.
I would expect that from a campaign, but for contributors to this blog to try to press this message, well, I think you risk your credibility doing that.
Let’s keep it real folks, and the reality is that, yes, Mrs. Radtke’s campaign has a long ways to go if they want to win this thing, and Allen wishes he had a lot of TEA party support.
Temp –
Your statement, in and of itself, is a narrative change from a mere 48 hours ago when the Tea Party universally hated Allen.
Evidence on the ground appears to be the precise opposite — with the Tea Party divided and in turmoil, and support for Allen on the rise.
Keep in mind that we’ve seen this before in Virginia. Bobby Hurt (now Representative) was loathed by the Tea Party. Now he’s the most conservative member of the VA delegation. Same with Rigell, and the Tea Party supported him in the general election.
What I believe we are seeing here is an admission by the rank-and-file that Allen is indeed the one to beat Tim Kaine. Given the focus Virginia will undoubtedly receive in the 2012 elections, they’re voting with their feet on whether Radtke (or any of the other challengers) will really represent their values as well as Allen might.
The story here now appears to be “who leads the Tea Party?” rather than “will Allen be the nominee?” — the latter question is unquestionably being answered as Tea Party activists break camp while the self-appointed leadership can do little to stem the tide…
Even then, Tea Party leadership isn’t ironclad in support of Radtke or Donner. More than a few are backing Allen and are being very quiet about it… but they know the end game as well as everyone here does.
Temporary if you think George Allen doesn’t have alot of Tea party support you need to get out more.Radtke has money trouble,Tea party trouble,and worst of all she has organizational problem.You can NOT win statewide race with these problems.Radtke might be a great person but she is in over her head in this race.Im sure the radicals in the tea party and her paid advisors will argue this point but at the end of the primary the truth will be known.
Shaun Kenney. As I respect your writing and think that you would only write what you believe to be true, I can only respond that I believe you are being misled by your sources. This narrative that there is some kind of growing ground swell of TEA party support for George Allen that you are writing is a fabrication of someone’s imagination. It started when Mr. Allen released his list of supposed TEA party supporters and I can understand why his supporters would want to perpetuate the myth from all of its angles, but it is simply that, a myth.
I don’t often say this, but until we know who you are, “Temporary,” I’m having a real hard time taking you seriously. Cohen, Barrett, “Little David” Obermark, and some of our regular detractors back themselves up with a degree of transparency, even support to the website (Turbo donates, we’ve run guest posts from Barrett, etc).
You’re getting dangerously close to being ignored.
Radtke’s debt is certainly an issue, not just because of indication of her supposed spending philosophy but for the practical reason that, if she can’t fund a primary race then where does she think that the money will come from for the general? True, the RPV will help and the RNC will even chip in if they see a Republican take-away opportunity. But the lion’s share will have to be raised by the candidate and so far she doesn’t seem to have the organization or the following to do that.
As to the claims of who speaks for the Tea Party movement, I am completely mystified. All I have heard for the past three years is how the TP movement is not a party, that it has no formal leaders or officers, and that it is composed of grassroots activists with varying goals related to a common purpose of limited government. How in the world can anyone claim to speak for the TP movement if all that is true? It seems to me that it would defy common sense and logic to believe that no one in the TP movement supports Allen. And before anyone responds that all TP activists oppose Allen’s failure to vote for limited government let me remind you that Jamie Radtke’s platform, with its Federal government restrictions on everything from gay marriage to abortion in cases of rape and incest, is hardly a monument to limited government or supportive of the Tenth Amendment.
JRH, fair enough, I would not argue that point.
I will leave this thread. And I would like to make it clear too that I am in no way questioning Mr. Kenney’s credibility, he is an excellent writer whom I really do believe writes what he believes to be true, and I apologize if it didn’t seem that way when I responded.
Temp –
Don’t know who you are… but I respect the respect, and did not take your disagreement to be disrespectful in the slightest.
…and we move on.
My name was on the supporters for George Allen and we have many people on our website and Facebook who support Governor Allen.
The national posts know what the Virginia blogs seem to ignore:
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2011/11/30/the-decline-and-fade-of-the-tea-party
Virginia Tea Party activist Jamie Radtke is getting little traction against George Allen.
Check this out
http://politicsmustangs.blogspot.com/2011/11/virginia-patriots.html
I really can’t understand how any Tea Party group or any true conservative for that matter, would willingly accept how Allen’s tragically bad record has been white-washed for this primary. Daily, both here and elsewhere, we’re told he’s the only one “electable”. Based on what?! He’s the only one we get to hear about?!
There’s a primary on folks, if he wins it and thus becomes the nominee, then fine, go vote for him. There’s no way he could be as destructive as Tim Kaine would be as a Senator. But can we please at least have a chance to get someone better?
@Edward –
I think that’s everyone’s point.
Have any of the challengers made this case? Or have they all just torn down Allen?
“Or have they all just torn down Allen?” I don’t see it that way at all. Pointing out the short-comings and failings of other candidates is key. Allen has been treated as the presumptive nominee since before even announcing candidacy. Faced with similar circumstaces, he’d be doing the same thing. It’s difficult for the other candidates to make a case at all, when the Party (and Allen) are acting as if the primary is merely a formality, and treating anyone who dares criticize the front-runner as a bad sport.
Alas, I concede George Allen will win the nomination. (barring another infamous gaffe) None of the other candidates can possibly compete with the media attention, money, and thus, organization his campaign has garnered.
One by one, seasoned officials and freshmen Delegates alike are coming out of the woodwork to proclaim lifelong fanhood for the guy, regardless of his sketchy record. The one thing he has that everyone agrees on; name recognition. And that validates a candidate’s conservative credentials how?
I’m just saying – this isn’t a primary, it’s a beauty pageant. To deny that is to pretend it’s anything but. I’m not angry at the GOP for taking the perceived easy road that is George Allen. I’m disappointed is all. We could do so much better.
Shaun said: “$80K+ in debt with $40K+ in cash is a BAD sign… invites the question as to whether or not she would run the government as poorly as her campaign.
And it makes the attacks on Allen’s backbench votes ring awfully hollow.”
Dude, jamie also incurred $50K worth of debt for each of her children too thanks to Allen.. Can’t make this stuff up.
Shaun wrote:
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The Tea Party Elite. Ah, you’ve hit the nail on the head. THey can’t even agree on what time of day it is, much less impose a “purity” test. Yet, they are self appointed, self-annointed “purists” of some undefined rag-tag. As I think Rocky November called them, mold on a damp towel clinging on like the wannabe dust glob on that commercial. God Save us.
Edward,
You seem to think that “the media” can promote the “presumptive nominee.” I beg to differ. If that was true then Ted Kennedy would have been Ronald Reagan’s opponent in 1980 instead of Jimmy Carter and Hillary Clinton would be President today. The media are followers of trends, not the creators of trends. That is why the Republicans have suffered through the “flavor-of-the-month” favorites since Bachmann bought the Iowa Straw Ballot in August. Bachmann, Perry, (pause) maybe Christie, Cain, and now Gingrich.
Whenever a political party is out of power, every contested office becomes a cannibalistic feeding frenzy for the challenging party. The race for the Webb Senate seat is no different. Sometimes there are two or more candidates who are equally matched and sometimes there is a candidate who clearly out-performs his primary opponents with preparation, organization, and fund-raising. The latter is the case in the race for Webb’s seat next year. There is no evil conspiracy, just natural political dynamics. Is Allen the best candidate Virginia can produce for the US Senate? Of course not. But who else can beat Tim Kaine? This is a movie we have seen many times before.
How can Radtke claim to be the most conservative candidate when her campaign is over 40k in debt ?
Hmmmm….let me direct you to the RTD article addressing that release about tea party support:
http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/2011/dec/01/tea-partyers-take-issue-allens-endorsements-ar-1505535/
Its kinda funny that simultaneously on this site I see comments how the tea party is dead, inconsequential, etc…yet the Allen endorsement is now supposed to “mean something”. So the tea party is dead and meaningless when its useful to criticize the tea party, but yet newsworthy and meaningful when some individuals are endorsing the establishment candidate.
Funny how that works.
Va Patriot, they’re just trying to change the narrative and spin out the fact that there were people who’s names were used without permission. Some of them even came forwsard on this blog. Then they try to say since only some of the claimed names were not legit and many were…oh it was still a plus for their side. Of course then they went to say there was a lot of pressure from the “elite” in the Tea Party and suggesst that caused them to lie about their original support.
Too bad Temporary doesn’t get the same treatment as HisRoc, Red Baron, and Rocky just to mention a few with partial names or full pseudonyms in use. You just say bad things about their guy Allen, so it matters in your case. You might get the same threat Va Patriot. James “Turbo” Cohen is his real name. The nick name “Turbo” doesn’t disguise that. Same with Barrett, not sure why he was thrown in there either.
You all say Jamie Radtke can’t win…..and yet….you continue to contrive and overblow any weakness you can point to like she does have a chance. Your walk doesn’t follow your talk.
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