The toll saga deepens
By Norman Leahy | Thursday, September 22nd, 2011 | Policy, VirginiaInitially, Virginia requested only one toll booth on I-95 at the VA/NC border. Now we learn that, at the Federal Highway Administration’s request, there be another toll plaza somewhere between Richmond and Fredericksburg. And that it’s possible the tolls nick people going each way:
“One of the concepts we were encouraged to look at was one location where you toll southbound but not northbound, and another location where you toll northbound but not southbound,” he said.
But it’s possible that the state will opt for two tolls in each direction, meaning drivers passing through Virginia would pay twice, he said.
Connaughton said that the state would prefer open-road tolling — a system of collections that does not require vehicles to stop — which would prevent heavy congestion and reduce long-term operating costs.
The proposal will be under study and open to public comment for about a year and a half. Looking at the calendar, that would put the decision on where to locate the toll booths being made right around the time the 2013 gubernatorial races begin to heat up…and, possibly, after Gov. McDonnell has taken up residence in the Naval Observatory. But no actual toll will be collected for nearly three years…and how much those tolls might be ranges from $2 for cars to $10 for semis.
In other words, Mr. Connaughton, who for a while was quite keen on a gas tax hike, will be gone as well. But by setting the toll policy in motion, he will have fulfilled, through other means and on a much longer time table, his promise to the commonwealth’s road builders to find a new revenue source.
Tags:
Contribute for Conservatism!
Share this post
About the author
Norm Leahy has written about Virginia and national politics online since 2002, beginning with One Man's Trash (OMT), and continuing through Bacon's Rebellion (both the blog and the e-zine), Sic Semper Tyrannis, NBC12's Decision Virginia, Richmond.com and Tertium Quids. He is the chief blogger at "The Score" and a producer of "The Score" radio show as well as being a Washington Examiner contributor.
We're 75% there! Thank you to everyone who has so far contributed! Just $2000 to go!
Comments
42 Responses to "The toll saga deepens"
Why not I-64 and I- 81 ?
Look like the feds won’t let Virginia toll the D.C. commuter traffic — too bad. It generates a lot of demand for roads in the Commonwealth and it’s where the real money is.
Regretfully, this is just another of those diversions that have allowed the Commonwealth to ignore the need for a long term reliable revenue source to maintain and repair its deteriorating infrastructure. The failure to do so rests of course primarily with the House of Delegates that will talk about just about anything else but doing the correct and right thing. And the failure to do so is not the conservative point of view at all; in fact, cost avoided now and transferred to our children is exactly what real conservatives oppose. McDonnell is left with no choice but to borrow to the hilt and let the depreciation of the system grow and grow, exactly what conservatives accuse liberals of doing. How ironic. So I challenge the conservatives on this page; why not address the real issue which is the lack of a reliable long term funding source for transportation.
Add toll booths on all roads in and out of the Springfield mixing bowl and problem solved. The commuters up there are spending most of their adult lives in traffic anyway, and won’t notice. Every toll booth could also feature emergency pay toilets and a Starbucks to extract even more revenue out of beleaguered or desperate commuters as they wait.
“When will they every learn?” – Kingston Trio
Borrowing can be equated to raising taxes (including tolls). Moreover, analogies comparing households
(mortgages) to government (bonds) is a misconstrual. Every instance of governmental borrowing relies on the sources of “new” revenue to service the acquired debt. Obstinately, households (generally) leverage themselves within reach of their current income levels.
Hence, the absurd covenants of “holding the line on taxes” and “no tax pledges” are shattered, whether the tax increase is immediate or in the future. The biggest travesty and disappointment to Gov McDonnell’s administration is placing millstones around the necks of the Commonwealth’s future.
So Tim J does what just about every so called fiscal conservative on these pages does; that is, ignore the real issue, and then make a joke of the whole matter. The real effect of this transferrence is the negation of the required role of an elected offical to that of a clown, serving the insatiable appetite for more tax cuts and tax avoidance.
If we need more revenue to pay for transportation, specifically roads then raise the gas tax or car tax.
Tolls just slow people down and piss them off. A toll booth would create jobs though. Is this McDonnell’s job’s proposal?
Mike and Tor,
When I find myself on your side of an argument, I am forced to go back and re-think the whole issue. But I agree with you–raise the gas tax. If we doubled the tax it would still be only 10% of the cost of a gallon of gas, far less than the 18% of a gallon it was when the General Assembly last raised it.
Anti-tax pledges and positions are just as counter-productive as tax and spend philosophies. Taxation and spending are necessary functions of a democratic government. The imperative is to do both in moderation and only as absolutely necessary. And maintaining the same transportation tax revenue rate for almost a quarter of a century in the face of explosive economic growth and expansion simply defies common sense. Putting toll booths on I-95 is even dumber than the “abuser fees” the GA tried as their last tax avoidance gimmick.
Well said, but republicans can’t say that to each other for fear of being ostracized. That view is definitely not in the republoican play book.
Ah, they’re going to put a tollbooth in the middle of the state to shut down my efforts to thwart it.
And now they’re talking about open road tolling. Don’t get me wrong, open road tolling if done right is a good idea. Problem is that Virginia does not do it right. Look at what Virginia is doing at the Downtown and Midtown tunnels here in Hampton Roads. The ONLY way you’re going to be able to pay the toll without penalty is electronically with a transponder. If you pass through the tunnels without the transponder you will receive a bill in the mail for the toll with a hefty “administrative fee” added. Pity all the active duty military living in Norfolk or Virginia Beach who never ever need to go through the tunnels until they’re told they need to get over to the Portsmouth Naval Hospital for some medical testing. Politicians do not think about those living on modest incomes, they’re more worried about helping all them foreign investors avoid having to pay someone to stick their hand out at a tollbooth.
I’m going to double post.
Republicans really are absurd. They’re against raising the fuel tax because they argue taxes will be a drain on the economy. But they’re in favor of tolls because they think the money to pay the tolls just magically appears in the motorists pocket when it comes time to pay up.
Well let me explain to you how it works in the real world Mr Republican politician. I operate a trucking company going by the name of Little David Transport. I have negotiated an agreement to haul freight under a set schedule of charges. However I insisted on one exception to the schedule which was that I also receive additional compensation for heavily tolled routes. They bucked and complained but I told them that if they did not agree to it, the freight could rot on the dock. They agreed to my demands, reluctantly.
Now, I receive additional compensation to specifically cover the cost of the tolls, but who in the end is going to end up footing the bill? It will be the consumer. I suggest the consumer look under their pillow in the morning to see if maybe the Tooth Fairy is going to be the one to cover the increased cost of their toilet paper. (Coincidentally right now I’m parked outside a grocery warehouse waiting to deliver a load of paper products, including toilet paper, in the morning.)
Little David,
Forgive me, but the idea that Ken Cuccinelli is panicking over the thought of your class action lawsuit has me RAOTFLMAO. Tell me again why Delaware can collect unmetered tolls at only one end of the state?
People like you will fight the fuel tax hike for selfish reasons and we will wind up sitting in miles-long traffic backups at toll plazas. And, BTW, all of the existing toll plazas on I-95 have EZ Pass and most of them have high-speed electronic lanes. That doesn’t stop the traffic from backing up as the “me-first” morons use the EZ Pass Only lanes to try to jump to the front of the non-EZ Pass lines.
Hisroc,
You expose your lack of knowledge.
If you want to see how open road tolling, when done right, can work go travel I-90 or I-294 in Northern Illinois. There, if you have the transponder your toll is taken without your even backing off the fuel pedal. I will excuse your ignorance because I guess you just are not as widely traveled as me.
You also do not understand where I stand on increasing the fuel tax. I stand with the vast majority of the trucking industry in my opinion that if increased revenue is needed, then raising the fuel tax is the fairest, most efficient method of obtaining the revenue. I have personally suggested that Virginia’s fuel tax should be increased by 10 cents a gallon.
I would imagine that Delaware slipped through the cracks because they initially obtained approval for the toll with the tolls also being charged at the exits. Why do they get away with only at the state line now? Perhaps because it has not been challenged in the courts.
Why does New Jersey get away with blatant violations of the STAA (Surface Transportation Assistance Act). I know the history on that one. When New Jersey was sued over the violations, it was by the New Jersey trucking association. New Jersey changed the violations so that they did not apply to New Jersey trucking companies or New Jersey licensed truck drivers so the New Jersey trucking association dropped the suit. Truth is, these changes made the violations that much worse, but nobody else has challenged it in court.
Do you need further lessons grasshopper?
Little David,
As long as you favor increases in fuel taxes, then we are cool, oh great Obi Wan Kenobi. That is a very unusual position for someone in the trucking industry whose default position is that trucking should not be taxed because it is simply passed on to consumers, a position BTW that you stated in your toilet paper example. Baloney. All taxes on economic activity are passed on to consumers. From property taxes to business license fees, we all pay for taxation on businesses. But, like fuel taxes, sales taxes, entertainment taxes, etc, we pay them in such dribbles and drabs that we don’t notice.
Personally, I have long favored the Penis Tax. Under this system, men would file an annual tax return based on their self-reported penis size. Like property taxes, the information would be available on line for anyone to look up. Cheating would be very rare and, in fact, most men would over-report their tax liability. The most frequent examples of over-reporting would be single Democrats in the dating pool.
“Taxation and spending are necessary functions of a democratic government. The imperative is to do both in moderation and only as absolutely necessary. And maintaining the same transportation tax revenue rate for almost a quarter of a century in the face of explosive economic growth and expansion simply defies common sense.”
It is not as if the government didn’t know these expenses were coming. Rather than plan and reserve for them, the government gave out all of the money in freebies and vote-buying schemes, and now finds itself wanting more. All the government ever wants is more more more. So now that the coffers need refilling for the known coming maintenance expenses that have arrived, conservatives (?) like HisRoc justify raising taxes.
HisRoc argues for not saving for that new car, but rather buying it on the (taxpayer) credit card. “Oh Crap! Suddenly I find that my 300,000 mile car won’t start! But I have a gun and taxing authority, so I know what to do!”
So after throwing out a platitude about democratic government, we get a predictable response from a “conservative.”
And then we are treated to this very revealing pearl:
“But, like fuel taxes, sales taxes, entertainment taxes, etc, we pay them in such dribbles and drabs that we don’t notice.”
You might not notice them, pal. But what a shockingly callous thing to say, Mr. (or Mrs.) “I’ve got plenty of money, screw the little people, thanks for the bank bailouts.” Sadly, I find this attitude to be epidemic among republicans.
Of course the republicans in the House knew the expenses were coming, but their political ideology does not allow them to admit that. The gas tax should have been indexed to inflation in 1986 when it was raised to $0.175, but of course, it was not. Had it been, we would have had the funds to cover maintenance, repair, and sustainment of the system. But that did not match Speaker Bill Howell and his caucus’s political mantra of no new taxes, and the result has been the deterioration of the system so bad that bridges have been abandoned, tunnels flooded, highways collapsed, and maintenance simply left undone, yet, republicans deny these facts in order continue the mirage that we are taxed too match. Frankly, pure bunk, and of course, they know it.
So, what fuel tax do you want to raise? The gas tax, diesel tax, the 2.1% Northern Virginia Transportation District sales tax, or the .6 cent/gal UST tax? Or all of them?
So are we going to have a first class transportation network to serve citizens and businesses, or are we going to continue to allow a system that once was first rate to deteriorate to conditions not tolerated in third rate countries. Answer that question Tim J and I will tell you what fuel taxes need to be raised.
Mike, you are using the old “the end justifies the means” tactic where you libs package an outcome with balloons, glitter, ribbons and BS to sell economic pain. So, it comes down to who do you want to hurt most… all Virginia commuters, Northern Virginia commuters, truckers or, as your great leader constantly reminds us, it is a matter of collective “shared sacrifice”?
Mike,
Be so kind as to identify a bridge that has been abandoned, a tunnel that flooded, or a highway that collapsed in Virginia. We have funding needs for transportation, but with your typical hyperbole you make the situation sound like Armageddeon.
Jamie,
First, I am not a Republican and my conservative credentials are suspect. I am an Independent Moderate who has as many issues with Republicans as I do with Democrats, although the Democrats seem to be on the wrong side of the argument, IMHO, than not.
I don’t see my response as being the least bit callous, just realistic. I’ll bet you, for example, that 9 out of 10 little people, uh, I mean motorists, filling up at a gas station couldn’t tell you what the gasoline tax is in Virginia. In fact, I predict that the typical response would be “too high” without having any idea how much they are paying. That is why the car tax was so unpopular in Virginia and allowed Jim Gilmore to steal a march on Don Beyer in the Governor’s race: people have to get out their check book and pay it in one lump sum. If it was a surcharge to some other payment or expense paid gradually over the year, few people would even notice it. This is reality, pal, not callousness.
But your overall response confounds me. Are you against raising fuel taxes because they hit “the little people?” If so, what is your solution to transportation funding? Some typical Democratic scheme that says “let the rich pay for it and let the lower middle class pay nothing?”
Actually, the Kings Point bridge in Suffolk has been abandoned, the mid town tunnel and the hampton Roads bridge tunnel both flooded, and sections of I-264 in Norfolk have collapsed. I am sure that readers from other parts of the Commonwealth can provide examples as well. Point is, the Virginia Chapter of the American Society of Civil Engineers has rated our transportation infrastructure as D- and the state must even now take $500M per year from the construction fund and put it in maintenance and it is still woefully inadequate. But republicans simply change the subject when this deplorable situation is even discussed.
Mike,
I am not familiar with the Kings Point bridge, but presumably the tunnels were pumped out and the I-264 lanes were repaired, were they not? And was this not caused by the Hurricane Irene flooding? That was millenium weather event, you know.
The bridge needed to be replaced but there was no money to do so. The Hampton Roads Bridge tunnel flooded because a 50 year old pipe burst; had the tunnel had required maintenance perform, this accident could have been prevented. The downtown tunnel flooded during a storm because the gates had not been properly maintained and were stuck so they could not be put into position to block the flood water. Do you see the point? We have skimped and simply avoided required maintenance and hopefully a catastrophe will not occur before sane politicians do the right things for Virginia. The House of Delegates has adopted a see no evil attitude, so disaster lurks.
Mike, more and more money doesn’t mean better and better roads when politicians are trying to get elected or re-elected. WAPO is reporting that the Fed fuel excise tax will expire at the end of September and if Congress refuses to renew it, then VA could increase the current fuel tax by 18.4 cents/gal on top of the current rates and no one in Virginia will notice a difference. All of these “collapsing roads”, “flooding tunnels” and “abandoned roads” are the reason my family has 4 wheel drive off-road Ford pickups purchased from our great Hampton Roads Ford dealers and I just purchased another.
When you can absolutely assure that every nickel that is collected in fuel tax is being spent on valid maintenance, operations, staffing and transportation projects that aren’t political patronage or padded and leveraged contract deals, then a conversation about increasing taxes can begin. I don’t trust VDOT and I don’t trust our politicians when it comes to transportation.
Frankly Tim J, never mind, but I did enjoy the image of you in your four wheeler, driving through swamps, forests, overland, and atop rivers, streams, and bays so you can avoid driving on Virginia’s roads, bridges, and tunnels. Will you get easements from the property owners? Will you pay a toll so they will “turn the pike.” Next time a German industialist comes here and asks what is wrong with our roads, I’ll inform him about alternate means of travel.
Mike,
Thank you for those examples, however I am unconvinced that a lack of transportation funding was the proximate cause of the tunnels flooding. Sometimes incompetency trumps budgets when the government is involved. But I see your point.
Tim J,
It is admirable that you want to see all tax revenue spent equitably and not used as political patronage, leveraged contract deals, or otherwise subject to fraud, waste, and abuse. As soon as you find such a place anywhere on earth, please call home immediately so that we can all move there. As for your four-wheelers bouncing around over collapsed roads and flooded tunnels, I think that you have been watching way too many Chuck Norris movies. Tell me, have you also invested your 401k in ammunition and canned food?
Oh, BTW, Mike,
The next time a German industrialist comes here and asks what is wrong with our roads, then ask him what is wrong with Germany’s roads. “Stauen” on the Autobahn are legendary in Germany and make the daily traffic jams in northern Virginia and Hampton Roads look like the Daytona 500 by comparison.
HisRoc,
It doesn’t matter whether or not they know how much tax they pay. The facts remain:
1. They are paying money and not getting gasoline for it.
2. The government knew these expenses were coming and failed to budget for them, choosing instead to spend almost every dime it had expanding itself, knowing full well it would need a taxpayer bailout (tax increase) when the expenses came due. The government also knew it could count on people to make the very arguments you are making now in order to justify ever higher taxes.
==>3. Money is fungible. Are there any government accountants or legislators who don’t know this? Why did the government act as if the economy was going to expand forever, and tomorrow would never come?
How would I pay for roads and improvements? Stop wealth transfer systems that pay people to just live.
In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: “If you don’t work you die.”
“Bouncing around”?… Nah, if you get the tunable suspension, you don’t even notice. Pre- ’65 silver, 401K currency investments in Swiss Francs, food, ammo, bullet polish and “bug out” vacation properties in several remote locations. Gonna get a new ammo reloader and a Perazzi trap gun this weekend at the Hampton gun show.
Well the last time one came here, he looked at the available sites for a manufacturing facility, but his last comment to the economic development official, before leving for Raleigh, was…”what is wrong with your roads?” He was commenting on the condition of I-64/264 which had more potholes than Beirut. Frankly, there is no answer. Fact is, we have created the problem ourselves by electing delegates who fail to lead, who fail to do what is necessary, who blame everyone but themselves for lack of leadership. Frankly, our House of Delegates is not worth a cup of warm spit when it comes to preservation of our transportation infrastructure. By their intrasigence, they have caused embarrassment for the Governor, for his Secretary of Transportation, for business, but most importantly, for us, the citizens of the Commonwealth, and not one of the majority deserves reelection.
Mike,
I have to violently disagree with your comment. The House of Delegates is not worth a BUCKET of warm spit when it comes to responsible financial planning for the Commonwealth. That has been my point all along: gradual and reasonable increases in the fuel taxes, indexed to the cost of fuel and to increases in highway usage would have mitigated if not avoided the congestion crunch we have all been predicting for over 20 years. That is why I refuse to support any candidate who takes a blanket anti-tax pledge–it relegates his responsibility to make tough decisions as an elected official to a campaign gimmick.
As for this: “Are you against raising fuel taxes because they hit the little people?’”
I oppose general consumption taxes because I oppose taxes. The answer that government always puts forward to every problem, even ones they knew 30 years in advance were going to come, is “we need more (of your) money.” Each and every time, I am expected to shut up and send more money (keeping less for myself) for this worthy cause or that, for this crisis or that, for this national security issue or that, for this bailout or that; in other words, for this politically connected special interest or that.
The actual operational purpose of government is looting. The bailouts proved that beyond a doubt. I’m sick of it.
Franklin, at the Constitutional Convention:
“And there will always be a party for giving more to the rulers, that the rulers may be able in return to give more to them. -Hence as all history informs us, there has been in every State & Kingdom a constant kind of warfare between the governing & governed: the one striving to obtain more for its support, and the other to pay less. And this has alone occasioned great convulsions, actual civil wars, ending either in dethroning of the Princes, or enslaving of the people. Generally indeed the ruling power carries its point, the revenues of princes constantly increasing, and we see that they are never satisfied, but always in want of more. The more the people are discontented with the oppression of taxes; the greater need the prince has of money to distribute among his partizans and pay the troops that are to suppress all resistance, and enable him to plunder at pleasure. There is scarce a king in a hundred who would not, if he could, follow the example of Pharoah, get first all the peoples money, then all their lands, and then make them and their children servants for ever.”
Enough already.
Quite a stretch, Jamie, even for you. Abolish all taxes, defund the Federal government, the State governments, and our Constitutions. Every man for himself; survival of the fittest and let the strongest rule.
Somehow, I don’t think that is what Franklin had in mind. We can elect reasonable and capable representatives to enact laws and to budget for the common needs. That means that they must levy taxes. Opposing any and all taxes is a simplistic solution that is as appealing as it is foolish.
Hisroc,
It is my position, and the position of the trucking industry as I understand it, that traffic bottlenecks and poor maintenance of roads costs the trucking industry billions of dollars year in increased equipment maintenance costs and lost productivity.
We think of investing in our nation’s infrastructure much as we might think of buying a new truck as being an investment that will yield higher profits in the future. Now this really gets complicated in how this is true. First off, any savings in costs WILL be passed onto American industry and the American consumer because our industry is cut throat competitive. Where we are going to ultimately benefit is that through the improved competitiveness of American industry, we will have more freight to haul.
Ultimately it is the combined judgement of the trucking industry that fuel taxes are by far the fairest, most efficient method of collecting revenue for the transportation network. Believe me, we want a strong economy, and we are not motivated solely for our own profitability. When the American economy catches a cold, many trucking firms end up on their deathbed with bankruptcy.
If additional revenue is needed, raise the fuel tax. If no additional revenue is necessary, then new tolls should not be necessary either. Any politician who claims otherwise is either ignorant or a bold faced liar.
Wagner has got to go.
Yes, clearly, those republicans who read our constant comment about the deteriorating condition of our transportation infrastructure know these facts as well; the problem is, their no tax ideology does not allow them to acknowledge the facts. They must live in a state of suspended animation; that is, knowing the facts, yet denying reality for political purposes. Frankly, so long as we, the citizens, let them do so, we are simply suckers.
HisRoc:
It is so like you to seize on one aspect of a post, construct entire arguments based on that one wrong characterization, and then run with it to “prove” your point. Did you miss the word “more,” or did you simply choose to ignore it as inconvenient?
I have to make do with what I have, or I have to earn more to have more. When the government wants more, it sends out men with guns to collect it.
I do not oppose the existence of government. What I oppose is governments’ endless cries for more more more. I am not a bottomless pit of money, and I am not a bottomless pit of effort in the service of others and the fulfilling of others’ needs. Sooner or later the government has enough; or, in your view, it doesn’t?
Mises: “Government is not, as some people like to say, a necessary evil; it is not an evil, but a means, the only means available to make peaceful human coexistence possible. But it is the opposite of liberty. It is beating, imprisoning, hanging. Whatever a government does it is ultimately supported by the actions of armed constables.”
Have you forgotten what ‘TEA’ stands for in TEA Party?
Taxed Enough Already.
Yes, Jamie, and it is so like you to use a thousand words when a hundred would suffice, ending with obscure quotation taken out of context to prove your point. Whatever.
But, thanks for telling me what TEA stands for in Tea Party. I thought that it stood for Taking Everything Angrily.
Of course, I have also heard that it stands for, “Te E pluribus Anus.”
HisRoc,
Please resume your spirited defense of tax increases, and don’t forget to tell us how increases are OK because no one notices the little taxes that are already embedded everywhere. I guess it’s ok to increase all of them up to the point where people notice them?
C’mon, buddy, you can do it. 46.2% of Americans are receiving some kind of government benefit (Medicaid, Medicare, Food stamps, Social Security, WIC, SSI…).
TELL ME MORE ABOUT WHY I NEED TO PAY MORE TAXES. MAKE YOUR CASE. I’m dying to read it.
Shall I mention how amusing it is for you to characterize Kipling and Franklin as “obscure”? No, most statists feign unfamiliarity with anything historical that is skeptical of their beloved government.
I guess this is why I would make a lousy Republican. As someone who takes 95 from Fredericksburg to Richmond maybe once a year, and as someone who has never, to my knowledge, crossed into the NC border, this toll will have pretty much zero impact upon me personally.
But I despise tolls. I see them as an infringement of my liberty to travel. I despise the idea that as a taxpayer who pays for roads, I have to pay EXTRA to ride on certain ones.
After travelling the east coast this summer (with an EZ Pass, which didn’t keep us from waiting an hour to get through the gates of the Garden State Parkway….) I was SOOOO glad to get back to Virginia. A small gas tax vs a toll I’ll never pay? To me, that’s a no brainer. I’ll vote for the tax every time.
Leave your response