UPDATED: Debt ceiling deal is a resounding defeat for Obama Democrats and a huge victory for Republicans and America
By Ken Falkenstein | Sunday, July 31st, 2011 | Policy, Politics
The Wall Street Journal is reporting that a deal has been reached to increase the debt ceiling by $2.5 trillion in exchange for $3 trillion in spending cuts and a vote on a Balanced Budget Amendment.
According to earlier AP reports the broad outline of the deal is as follows:
Under the possible compromise, the debt limit would rise by an initial $1 trillion.
A second, $1.4 trillion increase would be tied to a specially created congressional committee that would have to suggest deficit cuts of a slightly larger amount. If that panel did not act — or if Congress rejected their recommendations — automatic spending cuts would be triggered that could affect Medicare and defense spending, two of the most politically sacrosanct programs.
If these reports are true, then the Republicans have scored an enormous victory, and we conservatives need to recognize, support, and celebrate it as such.
The Republicans succeeded in getting cuts that exceed the amount of the increase in the debt ceiling, a vote on a Balanced Budget Amendment just a few months before the 2012 election, and no tax increases. The only thing the Democrats got was an increase in the debt ceiling sufficient to last until after the election.
This is a major victory for conservatives and a major defeat for leftist Democrats, and we need to recognize it as such and trumpet it confidently as such to the world. Obama and the Democrats began this debate by insisting on a “clean” increase in the debt ceiling – a blank check to continue to spend with no restraint whatsoever. This was a non-starter. Their fallback position was that any cuts associated with increasing the debt ceiling must be accompanied by tax increases. The Republicans stood firm, and the Democrats lost on this count as well.
Today’s deal (if it is as reported) is not everything that conservatives want, but it is a huge victory when the presidency and Senate are controlled by movement leftists. We need to recognize victory when we achieve it, and we need to make sure that when the leftist “news” media start spinning this as an Obama victory, we set the record straight:
We got almost everything we wanted.
The Democrats got nothing of substance that they wanted.
And Obama showed himself to be so inept, so lacking in leadership, and so irrelevant that the deal was struck only when he was sent to his room so the grown-ups could work things out.
We won. America won. And the Obama Democrats who put their partisan interests ahead of their country’s interests lost. It’s just that simple.
UPDATE: Now that the plan has been finalized and formally announced, the Washington Post’s Chris Cillizza declares the tea party a big winner and liberals a big loser:
Tea party: There were major questions coming into the 112th Congress about who would blink first — the largely establishment-aligned leaders of the new Republican House majority or the tea-party-aligned freshman members. We got our answer to that question late Thursday as House Speaker John Boehner was forced not only to postpone his compromise bill but ultimately to add conservative sweeteners to get the 217 votes he needed. (He got 218.) The tea party — inside and outside Congress — will almost certainly be emboldened by the result of this fight.
Liberals: As the basic framework of the deal emerged, liberals began voicing their discontent about a bargain that left their side wanting more. With no revenue in the initial phase of the legislation and Medicare cuts on the table in the second phase, there’s not much for the ideological left to celebrate.
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Ken Falkenstein has been a staffer in the United States Senate and the Virginia House of Delegates. He has managed political campaigns. He was a military intelligence analyst in the U.S. Army in West Germany during the Cold War. He is currently a civil litigation attorney with Poole Mahoney, P.C. in Virginia Beach. But his concern for his kids' future is what most informs his writing.
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74 Responses to "UPDATED: Debt ceiling deal is a resounding defeat for Obama Democrats and a huge victory for Republicans and America"
From what I understand Obama and the leftist’s did get some things that favored them. One such is that the “deal” would go through the 2012 elections and this will not hold the Democrats feet to the fire to go through with their part of the “deal” to stop the spending and raising of the debt. This would give a blank check to Obama and the Democrats to not keep their end of the bargain.
However, the good news is that a report, that just came in a few minutes ago around 5:00 P.M. here on this Sunday afternoon is that a vote will NOT be taken tonight ( because of the Tea Party Republicans) and will be put forward to tomorrow on Monday…where it might NOT be passed at all in the US House after the vote in the Senate.
HOORAY! HUZZAH! Praise the Lord for the few “Hero’s of Alamo Hill on Capitol Hill”! That’s what I’m calling them. Cut, Cap, and BALANCE. If the deal that the Tea Party wants is passed then raise the debt while agreement by the Democrats are being kept in place to make sure that Obama and the Democrats do not stray from their promises.
At the Alamo it was just a few men that stood for Freedom. Just as it was a few men of the Tea Party back in the 1700′s that stood up for freedom. And now it’s a few men in another Tea Party in the 2000′s that are standing up for Freedom.
Where are the Virginian’s in this fight? Of that magnificent few of the 22 Hero’s on ” the Alamo Hill of Capitol Hill” as I call them there were some men and women from the great state of Texas and Florida and Georgia and ALL of the Republican delegation of South Carolina
to stand firm against the socialist’s of the Democrat Party. But not one from Virginia. Shame on Virginia.
Tomorrow, another vote in the US House. Where will the Virginians be then? Again, HURAH, HURAH, HURAH, for the courage of the “22 of the Alamo Hill on Capitol Hill”.
Assuming that what is stated above is Absolute Truth, KF says “The Democrats got nothing of substance that they wanted.”
On the Dem side, All the cuts occur after 2013 while all the debt is incurred before 2013. So unless conservatives control the Executive and Legislative branches in 2013, the only thing that happens is future Americans pay another 3 trillion in debt service. They get the threat of steep cuts in Defense spending on top of the cuts Obama has already done. In addition, Obama runs commercials as a deficit hawk. That’s what the Dems got.
The Repubs get no tax increases until 2013 at the earliest. They get a vote on a Balanced Budget Amendment that “at risk” Dems will vote for and the rest will defeat. They get Dems putting some entitlements in “virtual” danger unless they agree to more out year cuts (see para 1). That’s what Repubs got.
I’m trying to be fair but accurate in translation. If I missed something please advise.
Have not heard the fat lady sing yet. Or seen the written deal. Or read any analysis of the deal by people I trust.
Perhaps Tuesday night The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (Harry, Barry, Mark and Nancy) will ride forth and wreak havoc upon Virginia.
Perhaps tomorrow the brave hobbits will destroy the One Ring in Mount Doom. Lord Voldemort and his deficit creators will be banished from Middle Earth.
Then again, it is possible that the failure of Harry and the senate democrats to pass a budget in 823 days could cause the pigs in Virginia to grow wings. Imagine huge herds of flying pigs all over the skies of Virginia Beach !!! What a disaster that would be !!! And all the fault of the democrats.
For several decades, the US has been the global hegemon and its currency the foundation of the world’s financial system. The writing is on the wall for both. Like the British Empire, the American imperium will not end in a flash but rather fade away.
Perhaps it is time to study the fall of the British Empire.
Perhaps I should stop studying for my master’s program then, NBV? You make it all sound so worthless.
We shall see. Sad thing is that it has been this difficult to get a little bit of cutting, but a lot more must be done.
Congress failed the American people … again.
The debt ceiling should not have been raised.
JZ,
If it were me I would trade all the “cuts” for the abolition of baseline budgeting. If Obama wins in 2012 then none of this is worth a hill of beans. But at least the Repubs didn’t crater.
GOP votes to raise debt ceiling again… How is that a win?
Now you have placed even more debt on the backs of my great grand children.
Spin, spin and more spin…
Darth Boehner and Harry Reid have gotten together to please the Emperor but the vote has yet to be taken in the US House. Will the Jedi stand up to the betrayal of one of their own? Can they hold back the evil plans of this unholy alliance?
Will the storm troopers of the Emperor really betray their master in the US House? We know the lap dogs of the state run medias will do all they can to put forward help in all their various “Pravda’s”.
And where will the Virginia congressmen be on Monday? Will they be absent on BLACK MONDAY OF AUGUST ONE, 2011? Or will they be a part of a blow on VICTORIOUS MONDAY OF AUGUST ONE, 2011 toward the “deals” made by these ambitious men of the Emperor?
You can bet that the 22 Heros’s of Alamo Hill on Capitol Hill will not give in to the foreign national sitting on the throne on Pennsylvania Hill. Texas will be there…so will South Carolina, Georgia, Tennessee, Utah, Minnesota, Illinois, Michigan, Kansas, etc. Where will Virginia be
on this most historic day?
Tune in on MONDAY OF AUGUST ONE, 2011 and find out if the storm troopers of the Emperor will revolt and join hands with the 22 (perhaps more?) Brave Hero’s of Alamo Hill on Capitol Hill to defeat Darth Boehner and his new friend Harry Reid, the duke of Nevada.
Tune in on MONDAY OF AUGUST ONE, 2011 and find out if there is any grit in the missing Jedi of Virginia’s Republican House delegation, or will they be missing again?
Conservatives need to recognize a victory when we achieve one. With a radical leftist president and radical leftists in control of the Senate, we were never going to get a BBA, but other than that, we got pretty much everything else. And the leftists got virtually nothing – no free reign to continue spending, no new taxes, nothing that advances their agenda. And one more thing – conservatives controlled the playing field and dictated the terms of the discussion.
This was a victory, and a big one. We need to stop our reflexive whining and celebrate it – and make sure that it is reported as the conservative victory that it was.
If a congressman states he will not support a debt increast then votes for a debt increase, is he or she a liar?
It was great to see Grover Norquist on the Sunday shows with a smile on his face, especially on Christiane Amanpour’s “This Week”. Grover had Paul Krugman turning red in the face along with squealing and stammering to defend his “progressive” soul, which was hilarious as Grover and George Will did a tag team smack down on that Nobel Prize winning clown.
I have been adjusting my “Internets” rabbit ears to get better reception in my fallout shelter and noticed that the leftist Armageddon bloggers have gone dark. They are probably in a conference call with the Daily Kos, Huff Post, Media Matters and White House to see what the blame strategy will be going forward that will attempt to salvage what’s left of those who used to listen to them.
Can you hear us now ?
Ken,
I wish that I had the confidence that you have that this is a victory. I just know that it is not so.
And I know that you want the conservatives to recognize a victory as if they have won this one. I want a victory as you do. But is this a victory when Obama does not face the court of public opinion with the articles of reality being written in and in which we can revisit within six months to see if he has kept his word? What is his fear about this? Unless he intends NOT to keep his word.
That was one of the MAJOR points that the conservatives wanted with any “deal”. And that is not asking for much. If Obama and his minions are really wanting to show their wiliness to be true to their word then this is a minor point and one which they could point out to the American people of keeping their word.
However, if this deal goes bad and the Democrats and Obama do not keep their word then we have a weapon that we can use against these obvious liars…caught in their own lies. Is peace so dear and tranquility so sweet as to purchased at the price of chains and slavery?
You know who said those words, Ken and they still ring true today.
I fear we are walking into a trap that will cost us dearly, if not everything economically in the years ahead. If this “deal” is not real then we have no way to call Obama on it before the next coming election. AND HE KNOWS IT…this was his major sticking point. If it is real, then Obama will prove his detractors wrong. Do you really think…pause…really believe he will go through with putting this nation back on the track to economic well being after he has done so much to destroy it?
And Ken, don’t be so sure that we conservatives are doing “reflexive whining”. For one thing we don’t whine. Don’t sell us short. We conservatives have good reason not to trust the foreign national in the White House. Since when has he ever been truthful with us? About much of anything?
And we conservatives can’t report this as a victory when we don’t know as of yet that it is. NOT!!!! A balanced budget goal NOT obtained or an accountability NOT gained is NOT the conservatives “getting pretty much everything else” and the leftist getting “virtually nothing”.
The conservatives “controlling the playing field” can only happen in the US House and we can “get” CUT, CAP, AND BALANCE in that chamber since it controls the purse strings. Obama would have to disband the US house with his new interpretation of the 14th amendment to get his way. And then he would have to face the judgement and ire and the votes of the American people in 2012. If he “suckers” us into thinking that he is really trying to help us and then we find out the truth after 2012…God help us.
This “victory” IS his and NOT the conservatives. But Obama and others sure have you believing the opposite. Why? How did you let it happen? Do you really trust this guy in the White House and the Democrat Party and NOT the conservatives in the US house holding the line until the elections in 2012 only 15 moths away?
Dog gone it Ken, I know that you have some conservative instincts and I know that you are a loving, caring individual. But WAKE UP!
Your friend, Pat Roberson. No whining conservative…just a cautious one.
Let Obama shut down the government. Then the only place he can make a “deal” is with the conservatives in the US House. Even with Darth Boehner as speaker (for how long) he will either CUT, CAP AND BALANCE in essence or let the American people see that he is intent on destroying the US economy for his own selfish desires to destroy the greatest government and the greatest Constitution ever written.
Oh, by the way Ken, a very pretty cartoon of the elephant standing on the donkey in victory. If that was the truth and the reality…it would be a pretty sight, indeed.
Oh, by the way, in the post at 00:36…I was referring to Obama as the destroyer of the US government…not Darth Boehner…although he is co-partner in this “deal” and some may think that he has to take equal credit in this distasteful and sordid episode.
Ken, you can put away your pom-poms and look at the reality of the situation.
The debt limit has been raised 78 times since 1960. This time, number 79 only precedes number 80 when this false ceiling is reached and insufficient.
Do you cheer because ceiling increases are tied to massive cuts in federal spending? In 1985 caps on spending were set and imposed automatic cuts if they were exceeded was tied to a debt limit bill. Within a single term, it became useless because Congress simply voted to ignore them.
One Congress cannot force the next one to do anything.
In this version, all the formulas are 10-year plans, envisioning cuts that wouldn’t survive the next five election cycles.
I don’t see much to rah,rah, rah about.
Victory? There was no “Vicotry” – except for those that are addicted to debt and spending beyond our means. THET can claim “Victory”. Not only did the Congress agree to allow the President to have trillions more to spend on buying votes for his next re-election, they agreed to create a super-committee – I call it the “Stupor-Committee” to work around the people we send to Congress that will not play ball with the status quo looters that have control over our Federal Government.
If what happened in Congress this weekend was a “Victory” for the American people, good Lord, what does a defeat look like?
Raise the debt limit … again?! Really? That is simply insane.
How come there isn’t a picture on top of Ken’s article that shows an elephant laying prone while the donkey is kicking and caving it’s head in? What a defeat for the Republican Party and the American people.
And Obama got his number one priority in this bill…that this issue is not to be revisited in six months. Obama said he wouldn’t sign any bill unless he had that provision in it. Well…he got want he wanted thanks to Darth Boehner.
Can you recall a House Speaker in mid term? Impeach John Boehner!!!
Pat: Like you, I’m unprepared to call this an absolute victory for conservatives until I’ve learned more about the contents of the deal. That having been said, considering how upset our opponents appear, I have reason to believe Ken might be right in the end.
Yet I find your Alamo analogy puzzling: sure the defenders of the Alamo were heroic, but weren’t they also killed to the last man? If you haven’t already, you should read Shaun Kenney’s excellent post from last week on this very topic:
http://www.bearingdrift.com/2011/07/27/hey-kids-pop-quiz/
Jason,
“Absolute” victory? Implying that there was a victory? Sorry, Charlie but we are bring led down the primrose path to a very rude awaking. Our debt will continue to go up and so will our taxes in one way or another…despite what they say. Believe it.
Obama got what he wanted. He even said that there would be NO accord unless this issue was put off until after his election and he had another four years in the White House. He wants no responsibility for what happens between now and 2013. And he got it.
Obama knows if there is no shutdown of the government that he can continue his sleight of hand on increasing our debt and ruining the United States economy for another year and a half. Good Lord, look at what he has done in only two and a half years.
Yes, Jason, the men at the Alamo died to the man. But Texas lived!!! A great sacrifice was made so others could live free. Those 22 Hero’s that came forward on the debt vote last week will suffer much over the coming months…some will find that they will be targeted for defeat for their heroic stand.
Perhaps, Jim Jordan, will indeed be a target in Ohio…despite what is said by Darth Boehner. Others will be ridiculed and reviled. Others will be demonized. But for one moment they stood for something greater than themselves. I was even pleased for the first time in a long time about a congressman…a real representative of the people. Wow!!
But the battle isn’t over. This “deal” hasn’t been passed by a vote in the US House. Personally, I think that our best bet to win a victory in reducing the debt our country is drowning in…is to let Obama shut down the government and then write a law tying his hands to keep the Democrats and Obama to their promises. Do it every six months until we can see real change. NOT his change…to destruction.
Oh, and Jason, don’t be fooled by how “upset” our opponents “seem” to be. They may be crying on the outside but they are laughing on the inside.
Remember that “famous” moment when Bill Clinton was seen laughing at a funeral but when he saw the cameras he was able to cry and produce tears, no less? These socialists will continue to try and deceive the American public until it is to later for them to do anything about their destruction.
I will never vote for a democrat ever in my life . NO REVENUE – NO VOTE .
The real issue is how will the “deal” effect the recovery, not who won or lost. The jury is still out. Clearly, cutting expenditures during a recovery is a high risk endeavor, yet this deal seems to be back loaded; that is, most of the cuts come later, after 2013, presumabley when the economy is back to full recovery. But our nation still has too many unemployed, and it is hard to see now more cuts in government expenditures will stimulate growth in GDP when more workers are being added to the unemployment line.
I think a lot of good came from all of this.
The TEA party is now its very own faction in the eyes of most people, and that is good. It is misrepresented still, but at least it isn’t just part of the Republican party anymore. Earlier on the mantra from the media was that the TEA party and the Republican party were exactly the same thing, but that obviously isn’t the case, some lines have been drawn. Now there is a much cleaner distinction in many people’s eyes, you’ve got your “tow the line” compromise business as usual Republicans, and you’ve got your “in your face and fight” conservatives, and that will make voting a lot easier for people who didn’t see the distinction before. It doesn’t help Republicans that they are going to have to team up with Democrats to squeeze this bill through the House.
One of the best things to come of all of this was that your average(?) U.S. citizen got a basic education on the U.S. debt and their part of it. How many times did we hear that we were borrowing $0.40 of every $1.00 we are spending in the past few weeks, most Americans probably didn’t know things like that, or if they did it wasn’t in their thoughts. The American public also got an education about who is who and which side of things they are on, there can be little doubt who to vote for if you want to control spending, and who to vote for if you just want to keep borrowing and spending money. Choice is good, and in 2012 people will have some clear choices to make, it is becoming much more focused in people’s minds now.
Third, the true fiscal conservatives never blinked. That makes the choice a lot easier to make for anyone who really wants to cut government spending, to know that there are a few people in Congress who will really fight for a balanced budget. The problem isn’t that some of these people weren’t doing the right thing, it is that they were simply too few in numbers, there just weren’t enough of them to make it happen this time. That can change in 2012.
The best thing to come of this may be the realization that the tea party republicans now own the failure of the recovery. By creating uncertainty and instability about raising the debt ceiling, and by insisting upon more cuts that put a damper on growth, they are now wedded to the mantra; more cuts, more unemployment. Yes, many fervently believe more cuts are what we need, but now, we’ll see the effects. And it won’t be a pretty sight, and they will be responsible.
Of course, we still need to get the deal passed and signed today.
Yes, Ken is right: the Republicans got most of the deal.
However, the losers here are not the Obama Democrats but rather the teahadists. On the cusp of triggering a second Great Depression, the TEA Party’s response was “Bring it on!” They showed themselves to be utterly incapable of governance, and having zero grasp of basic economics.
Mike, it is a good point, now no matter what the markets do (and I personally think we’re headed much lower across the board), Democrats will be able to muddy the waters and say it wasn’t all their fault – the TEA party will take the place of Bush on all of the bumper stickers. That’s okay, the reality is that even if it were true that cuts cause unemployment, which I believe is true to some small degree, the size of the proposed “cuts” (they aren’t even really cuts) and their timing can’t possibly cause any negative consequences in the economy in the next two or three years, no rational person will believe that it could. It won’t be easy for conservatives to talk through the wall of media that will be saying it is budget cuts that are causing unemployment to rise, but the elections of 2010 showed that people can still make sense of things on their own despite what the media says. If people just listened to the media there is no way that so many conservatives could have been elected in 2010, I find that to be a reason for optimism.
I don’t completely disagree with your point, however, over the longer term if fiscal conservatives are able to get the cuts that they want (real ones) it will cause a bump in unemployment, and all of this attention on the debt will also probably cause a bit of deflation as the credit bubble continues to do burst, we will continue to see participants in the economy reduce their leverage. Conservatives will make a mistake, I think, if they try to deny that that, and the preferred and honest argument is that it is better to take a bit of bitter medicine now than a lot more later.
Of course it is disingenuous on the part of Keynesians to cast a short term hit to the economy as an entirely bad thing when it results in longer term stability and better prospects for the country overall, but that won’t stop them from doing it. Keynes is reactionary non-sense that spendy politicians everywhere embrace because it allows them to do the one thing they wanted to do in the first place – spend more money. It’s like alcohol rehab that lets you drink as much as you want, it might not work, but hey.
Yes, even the very conservative Richmond Times Dispatch wrote recently about Governor McDonnell crowing all over the news media about the fact that he created a surplus. The RTD took him down about three notches, chiding him for the IOU to VRS, the borrowing for transportation, and of course, failing to acknowledge that without the help of the federal government, Virginia would have been in a deplorable state. The real issue for me is the rhetoric; that is, no one denies the Governor has done his best in tough times, but he is just so disingenuous about it. For him, republicans rock, democrats spend. Fact is, when our political “leaders” model divisiveness and extreme partisanship, it creates the same in the electorate. Bad for all of us.
To say that I am alarmed at anyone calling this a victory would be a gross understatement. If reporting is correct, nothing was cut except the growth of government spending. Who wins when government grows? Establishment R’s and D’s. The Republicans have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Gratz all around.
There is no political will in America to make the kinds of choices that need to be made. Admittedly, it is nigh impossible to build a political consensus for pain; given the choices of “pain now or nearly unbearable pain later,” humans will choose later every time. There was never any doubt how the Kabuki-on-the-Potomac would end.
Four short years ago everyone agreed that a $400 Billion annual federal deficit was irresponsible, reckless, and unsustainable. Measured against a $13 Trillion GDP, we were deficit-spending 3% of GDP. This is the magic 3% Fed-induced annual inflation you’ve heard spoken of so often. This is the real purpose of the central bank (making it seem possible to pay for the welfare/warfare state), but that is a story for another day.
We are now deficit-spending 11% of GDP, and have been for three years running. The numbers are so horrendous that Congress, paralyzed with fear, hasn’t passed a budget, they are merely appropriating money.
The central bank has used its computers to create nearly $1.7 Trillion brand new dollars. This money has been loaned to the government. Now, if this money had been used to buy Nimitz-class aircraft carriers, the 400 of them so purchased would stretch from Richmond to Jefferson’s tomb in Charlottesville. I use this illustration to make a point: is clicking money into existence the same thing as clicking into existence aircraft carriers? It is functionally equivalent. Yet, everyone must admit (unless they care to argue the point) that it is nonsensical to say one can create aircraft real carriers in this manner.
Such is the depth of our crisis. Does anyone out there really understand?
In the face of this altered reality, which is simple to observe for anyone who wishes to see it, we as a nation have chosen to keep right on spending. There are no real cuts, only some token reductions in the rate of growth of spending. Such is the depth of our depravity. Senators took to the floor and spoke tearfully of Pell grants, and highways, and underprivileged children in wheelchairs. Reality be damned, emotion is more important.
I am absolutely certain that most readers will not understand this next, but it is nonetheless true: actual revolutions happen when the pain of the current system is perceived to be greater than the pain of probably dying in a war. By continuing to postpone the pain, we guarantee it will be greater; with each raise in the debt ceiling, we guarantee that the height from which we fall will be greater than before and the destruction of our way of life will be that much deeper.
I have no desire for revolution, and I have no desire to see the destruction of the shallow vestiges of “our way of life.”
It is still immaterial to point at the markets reaction to almost anything. The central banks of the world, and mostly the Fed, sit astride the global economy with their computerized printing presses. There are no markets, there are only interventions. This, too will change. One day, perhaps soon, the real markets will cry “No Mas.”
As I pointed out in my comment under the BOHICA post, I am content. Nothing has been resolved, and nothing will be until crisis management doesn’t work anymore. As long as politicians claim a role in managing the economy, we will suffer the consequences of their collective stupidity. We will deserve to suffer, because we are stupid enough to believe that a small group of wise men can manage an economy of 300 Million souls.
And all some of you can think about is who’s going to be blamed; praying at the altar of power while praying your opponents don’t get their hands on it.
Well Jamie, it was only a decade ago that in fact our Congress and President did just that; they managed to stimulate the growth of GDP, to reduce expenditures, and actually increased taxes so the deficit disappeared, and the national debt actually decreased. So please, write your doom and gloom, but we can and will recover. In fact, if this Bill passess, and the congressional commission follows the good advice contained in the Gang of Six, the Simpson-Bowles, and the Alice Rivlin commissions, a more strategic, long term action plan can turn the ship of state around. Hopefully, once that occurs, we will have developed some immunity to the disease of privatism; that is, a policy of tax cuts and spending on a credit card is disastrous; it was then, and it would be again. We need to take our medicine, and learn, and we can do that.
I believe the political will exists among the current crop of Republicans to make the necessary real cuts to save America from the recklessness of the Obama Democrats, but with a radical leftist president and Senate seeking to spend even more rather than make meaningful cuts, it was a remarkable accomplishment for the Republicans to be able to force cuts (albeit based on Baseline budgeting) of $3 trillion and get a vote on a Balanced Budget Amendment. Given these realities, this is a clear victory for the Republicans and America and an abject defeat of the leftist president and Senate Democrats.
The next, and more important, test of the Republicans will to do what is necessary to fix the disaster created by Obama and his Democrats will be after we win the presidency and the Senate in the 2012 elections.
Mike,
So your solution to the current crisis is another housing bubble? Is that your idea of “stimulus”? That is what happened ten years ago. The stimulus wasn’t federal spending, it was Greenspan’s taking interest rates to historic lows and keeping them there. It was Congress deciding to enhance the role of Fannie and Freddie as implements of social(ist) policy and granting loans to anyone who could fog a mirror. It was the raising financial leverage (lowering capital ratios).
In other words, it was the blowing of an unsustainable bubble. If you’ve not been living under a rock, you would know that already and not come here advocating for another one. The idea that stimulus spending works is elementary-school stupid. If it worked, after nearly $5 Trillion of deficit stimulus spending, we should be in a boom and be experiencing frightfully tight employment.
Remember, we spent an equivalent $3.6 Trillion in inflation-adjusted dollars on all of World War 2.
Mike, you sure don’t seem to know very much about the markets. Did you get an MBA from some Keynesian Madrasah?
No, the housing bubble was the Bush administration’s response; clearly, it was a disaster. Fortunately, the Obama administration has avoided gimmicks and focused on targeted investments in education, infrastructure, and research and development. The three commissions to which I referred are in general agreement that we must cut the rate of growth in expenditures, increase revenue, stimulate investment so GDP accelerates, and in a decade, deficits should disappear as the percentage of revenue/expenditures stabilizes at 20% of GDP.
And Ken, that kind of extreme rhetoric just reveals that you are a political hack, and that kind of post takes this forum down about six notches. BD is supposed to be better than that.
Using FACTS, tell me which part of what I wrote is untrue.
KF,
Please don’t attempt a discussion with MB. I once asked him a simple question based on on what he said in one of his posts. He answered with extraneous non sequiturs. I kept at it across 2 or 3 different post threads. He finally acknowledged the question and then answered it by restating his Original post verbatim!
Well Ken, your post, with words and phrases like recklessness, radical leftist, abject defeat, and disaster, in the context of a negotiatied compromise that neither the right, the left, nor the center totally agreed with, but which averts default and a fiscal crisis that would have had severe effects on every american, reveals a continued divisiveness that at least for one day, while the process is still in progress, should remain in the background.
Nothing is averted. The actual crisis, when it occurs, will be ever greater because we have kicked the can down the road and levered up some more.
Please google “Market-ticker the strategy that has never worked”, click on the first hit, and look at the chart of “GDP added per unit of debt.” We have been living in a debt bubble for the past thirty years.
Tell me how more borrowing is going to make it better. Does anyone see any productivity in there? Can someone use arithmetic and not dogma to tell me how we’re going to grow our way out of this with more borrowing?
How are you going to “stimulate investment,” Mike? What’s your plan? The only way I know to do that is to make investment more attractive, in other words more profitable. So are you going to de-regulate or cut taxes?
Mike- I used facts to support my conclusions. Please return the courtesy.
Well, from a government perspective, it means spend wisely in areas like infrastructure, education, and research and development that create opportunities for private companies to create jobs and provide support for production and growth. Since our economy is now 70% or so dependent upon consumer spending, more cut backs creating more unemployment just puts a damper on economic activity, especially on Main Street.
val, your finally noticing that MB recopies his comments across different posts and they don’t make any sense? That’s why Mike is fun because he has an ADD character to his comments and doesn’t read anything you are trying to discuss, or he cherry picks one specific idea and goes from there to Armageddon in one sentence. Also notice he is been directed to function as an official “repeater” for the Daily Kos talking points and they don’t tolerate original thought.
Instead of visiting all of those leftist blogs to see what the enemy’s next move, attack, blame strategy or media talking points will be, just stay tuned here because Mike is a one of their scouts on the conservative frontier and likes to talk about it. You might say that he is “one stop shopping” for everything liberal, leftist and progressive and we can thank him for telegraphing their next moves.
Stunning. The DEBT ceiling is raised, no meaningful cuts are required, and another appointed “committee” is created to emasculate the people the voters sent to the House of Representatives to represent our desire for stopping the insanity of more and more debt to fund the out-of-control spending. The GOP caved and people want to somehow claim this capitulation and fiscal lunacy is a “victory” for the GOP?
Incredible.
And then we have guys like Mike Barrett STILL singing the same ‘ole song that government needs to borrow and spend to “invest” so the “economy” will “recover. Huh? Taking on even MORE debt (MASSIVE increases in debt) is somehow going to make the cost of government – less? Really? Exactly how?
And then you have good ‘ole Henry Ryto attacking the TEA Party … typical. (Yawn) As a the local self-anointed Lord of the Freeloaders in our region HRT/RAC-man Ryto tries to demonize anyone that will actually work to end the out-of-control Socialistic policies that redistribute wealth from producers to Henry and his vile band of Freeloaders. Both Mike Barrett and henry look at unneeded government spending on wasteful “wants” like light rail as “investments”. It is EXACTLY that type of wasteful government spending that needs to end. But not now … the GOP joined with the DNC is allowing trillions more in new debt – new debt to fund more wasteful “investments” that Mike and Henry keep pretending are somehow a benefit to the people picking up the tab.
There was this famous guy who was recorded in Luke to have said: “Lord, forgive them for they know not what they do”.
TimJ
No I didn’t just notice. I was just trying to stop KF from more aggravation attempting to get a response. However, MB’s activity level seems to have gone up in the last month or so. In addition JR now seems to be the target of guys who haven’t shaved recently posing as old women ranting about SS and Medicare and how JR is evil. I don’t know if all these are signs of doom or signs the leftists are panicking.
This is a predictable catastrophe. Many have noted that the dems in previous years agreed to spending cuts later in exchange for tax increases now, and the spending cuts never materialized. Now, the repubs have gone along with a (handout-fueled Obama-reelecting) debt increase now in exchange for spending cuts later (loaded into the out years).
Someone here once deigned to lecture me about concentrating on winning rather than on arguing. Hmmmmmmmmm…….
We’re adding $2.5 Trillion to the debt, to be spent by he end of 2012 at the current rate. There are few if any current cuts. We cannot make concrete spending commitments for future Congresses. In other words, the dems and MIC repubs got their debt increase, and the productive classes got saddled with more debt. Even if the components are delivered, we get $2.5 Trillion more debt (enough for 1.4 years) and $2.5 Trillion in cuts over ten years. Who actually believes that makes sense? Who cannot see it is a transparent attempt to mislead?
The new normal, $1.5 Trillion annual deficits, continues unabated except by promises from politicians.
NOTHING is averted, NOTHING has changed, we continue on the SAME COURSE, and the repubs have bought in. Game, set, and match. Washington 1, debt slaves 0.
One step closer. Has anyone bothered to ask the Congress where the money is going to come from? Has anyone asked the Congress if the Fed intends to keep 10-year rates suppressed with more QE? Are we betting that EU contagion will push money into Treasuries? For how long, and what afterwards?
If we’re (the private sector) not investing the debt productively, but Washington is merely using it to pay for consumption, it is unsustainable. Someone convince me otherwise?
Well, SIXTY-SIX Republicans (bless them) voted against this compromise bill in which I believe it will be another same old-same old spending bill without lowering the debt of the United States since I don’t TRUST most of those SPENDERS that LIVE up there. In TEN years we will see ever thing just coming up hunky dory? Yeah, right.
However, those nasty old socialist Democrats who just “hate” this bill VOTED FOR it!!! I guess that makes it the Democrats bill since it would not have passed without them.
I mean that 100 socialist Democrats and 174 Republicans caved in (along with Ken Falkenstein) and just LOVE Harry Reid and John Boehner’s SPENDING bill. If there HAD BEEN a shut-down of the federal government the Democrats would have had to deal with the US House Republicans for real debt reduction. Those crocodile tears from both the GOP and Democrats fool no one.
This is what Harry Reid and Obama wanted. And they got it. This piece of legislation belongs to the socialist DEMOCRATS and their wanna be followers. Nancy Pelosi voted for it just like she and Reid said that they would. This bill belongs to the DEMOCRATS. And the resulting unchecked debt that will make a Greece out of the U.S. without a United States to pull them out.
Sorry, I added in the five missing votes to the victorious Democrats.
“The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance.”
– Cicero , 55 BC
Sorry, I meant to say the victorious Democrats “and establishment Republicans”. I so dislike calling them Republicans even if I did qualify them with an adjective. Those establishment Republicans are actually second class Democrats.
And for those choice piece of words Cicero was to have his head cut off…and his hands…and his feet …and those body parts were sent to all parts of the Roman Empire. Mark Anthony and Octavius (Augustus) did not want free speech from a member of the old Roman Republic.
Where would Barak Hussein Obama stand on free speech in his empire…if it existed? Maybe we will find out if he keeps destroying America and sends it to a debtors prison.
I’m looking for a primary challenger for Rep. Scott Rigell. He is such a sell out. I want a true conservative that actually cares about the future of the country to represent me. I was against Boehner as Speaker after the election and I’ve been proven right. Rigell is willing to go along to get along and needs to be replaced.
John__21…I agree with you about Scott Rigall.
But FIRST I would like to thank the two Virginians who voted NO on raising the debt ceiling. I don’t know if you guys were looking for “cover” or if you were voting on principal. But at the very least you were wise enough not to put your name to a vote raising the debt ceiling…this crucial time. Let’s hear it for RANDY FORBES and MORGAN GRIFFITH for standing tall and not putting their names to this (dam) -ing document. HUZAH! HUZAH! HUZAH!
I expected Frank Wolfe, Eric Cantor and Scott Rigell to “follow” their “leader” since they have no legs of their own to stand on. John__21 knows that and so do many others on this blog. I am disappointed that Rob Whitman, Robert Hurt and Bob Goodlatte let themselves be led into signing onto a vote TO RAISE THE DEBT CEILING…ONCE AGAIN.
Virginians have always been in the forefront of fighting for what’s right for Virginia and for the Tea Party Americans of old. Many still do. It’s a shame that most of their elected representatives do not do the same. It’s a sad day in Virginia. And it’s time to get to work at the ballot box.
One more note about Forbes and Griffith, these two congressman by their actions may have taken hold of the words…”Feed my sheep” and voted in accord for others and not for themselves. Or so, I want to believe. Thank you, congressmen.
Hey thanks for the f#%k Socialist Republicans.. Obama and gop compromised but me thinks Obama got more in the mean time.. #Obama.winning
Then on the other hand, perhaps the Honorable Mr Robertson is wrong.
Have listened to Donald T, Allen W and Dick M. Not exactly the “establishment” of republicans. They are much more positive about all of this. And this little lamb will meekly follow those three.
I am sure that the republican leadership worked very hard on all of this and did the best that they could. And I am grateful to them.
NBV,
Time will tell. And I, for one, am losing my patience with magical thinking and those who indulge. There is no secret sauce (unless one counts actually following the Constitution and returning the government to only its lawful Constitutional functions). There is no reason to be hopeful (except for the fact that we are Americans and we are better than we have been acting since FDR). The long American socialist experiment is coming to a close. We’re broke. I may live to see liberty restored in America.
There is no solution that maintains our easy, indulgent lifestyles. The answer is:
1. Allow the markets to clear. To do this, end all market interventions, return the Fed’s balance sheet to where it was in 2006. Let the losses flow and be realized. REPRICING ASSETS IS HOW THEY GET PUT BACK INTO PLAY.
2. End “Too Big To Fail.”
3. Shred most regulations; reexamine environmental regulations.
4. End all business support programs.
5. Restore faith in government by restoring citizenship; end the endless wars (drugs, terror) on our civil rights.
6. Shred the tax code and implement a broad based flat tax.
7. Stop paying people to stay home, screw, and make babies they can’t afford.
8. Shutter most federal departments: AG, ED, HHS, Energy.
9. Bring the troops home, now. Today. Slash defense spending to the point where it truly is “defense.”
Statist collaborators, commentators, pundits and Nobel prize-winning Keynesian economists should not expect kindness and understanding on the other side. I, for one, will be shouting from the rooftops.
Paul Krugman: get a real job, making a useful product and bringing it to market at a competitive price. You have driven the final nail in the coffin of interventionist economics. May history heap upon you the scorn you and the rest in the market-socialist satrapy so richly deserve.
A Victory for Republicans,, Bull
This deal is a Dead Bang Looser….
Start w/the fact that it starts with Baseline Budgeting,,, what we have is a promise,,repeat Promise, to reduce planned increases over the next ten years,,, we all know that today’s Congress can not bind future Congress’s when it comes to discretionary spending cuts.. throw in the fact, repeat Fact, that most of the cuts (let me stop here so I can roll on the floor laughing) are planned for out years, which we all know means they will never happen,,, actual cuts to next years already planned increases will probably be in the neighborhood of $100Billion or less,, a mere pittance given that we borrow over $5Billion every single workday… throw in the fact that the baseline budget assumes highly unrealistic assumptions about revenue growth,,, we are LQQking at Trillion $$dollar deficits for as far as the eye can see….
And it gets worse, its guaranteed that the “Debt Commission” will recommend raising taxes… it is guaranteed that due to the way the Congressional Budget Office scores these things that the Bush era Tax rates will Not (repeat NOT) be extended….and it will get even worse as 10,000, yes ten thousand, people turn 65 every day and are fattening the Social Security and Medicare rolls at an an incredible rate,, can you say mega$$$$
Bohner, Rigell, Cantor, Witman, they all need to go,,, they were idiots to accept this deal, they won’t tell the truth about the massive problems I’ve outlined above,,, they are not conservative leaders,,,, and they all vote for unconstitutional spending on entitlements, breaking on a regular basis their oath of office where they swore to protect and defend that document…
Beam Me Up Dear Leader,,, I’m Taxed Enough Already by that pact of fools
I really enjoyed reading the recent posts as you continue to tear each other and the Party apart. I truly hope you are successful in purging all those who are not true believers. In fact, why not just change you name to the tea party and be done with it. I thought this was supposed to be a conservative republican blog, but clearly, most posters are of the libertarian, tea party, purist variety.
Mike,
Hopefully the teahadists will breakaway and form a third party.
The TEA Party: A Vote For Us Is A Vote For A Second Great Depression.
Yeah, that would sell.
My BD colleague Brian Kirwin has a great post on this subject today: http://www.bearingdrift.com/2011/08/02/debt-ceiling-what-did-you-expect/
The independent rolls keep growing while the gop and dem brand loses its luster. I really wanted to believe Scott Rigell was going to take a stand on principle and hold the line on government excess. He bent over backwards for Cantor as promised, a key reason I pounded him, moreso than his Obama donation.
Scott Rigell did the right thing. It would have been irresponsible to allow us to go into default because $3 trillion in cuts with a leftist president and a leftist Senate wasn’t good enough. We need to recognize victory when we achieve it and appreciate those who helped achieve it.
Left of what; a bunch of extremists and zealots whose preference was default, recession, high unemployment, more business failures, and the reduction of the personal net worth of every American? Frankly everyone is to the left of these risk takers who were saved from their oun zealotry by mainstream realists. Of course, until we get real about reducing deficits and the debt by closing corporate loop homes and by tax reform, we will remain in exactly the same funk we are currently in, and I expect the whole debt rating scheme will remind all of us that real deficit reduction must be accomplished by cutting expenses and raising tax revenue.
Voting YES for the largest debt hike in history is doing the right thing? We need to “recognize victory” and show appreciation? I was concerned that Scott would stand with Cantor and let Washington DC change him.. My worst suspicions are confirmed with this vote.. with regrets.
I truly wanted to give the man a fair shot at proving me wrong. Now the question is will there be a primary or a convention for VA-02?
Mike, in many ways you are fighting a losing battle, you are fighting the battle that Progressives were fighting last year and finally gave up on because it wasn’t working for them. One of the Zogby polls has 91% of respondents saying that they want the federal government to reduce the deficit and debt. You can’t get 90% of people to agree on much of anything in this world, 91% is a very strong number. The typical response from a Progressive when presented with that basic fact is that they start throwing out poll numbers about how many people don’t want medicare cut, etc, and then somehow lead that around to saying that the 91% number isn’t true, that the respondents didn’t understand what they were saying, that the polls conflict, etc. Trouble for Progressives is that the numbers are true, and it is very obvious from the polling that what people really want is a reduction in the COST of medicare and other entitlement programs, etc, to the country without reducing the quality of the service in order to reduce spending and reduce the deficit. People know that these programs need to be updated, that they are filled with waste and inefficiency, etc, medicare recipients see that every day. Voters do want the federal government to cut back on spending and increase efficiency, they do want changes to medicare and social security that don’t effect the quality of service, etc, and if you are on the wrong side of that argument, you are on the wrong side of that argument, and you don’t want to be on the wrong side of that argument in 2012.
Arrarently Temporary you are unaware that increased revenue reduces the deficit as well. The republican party walked away from the President when he offered a ten year plan to decrease spending by $3 trillion and increase revenue by $1 trillion, which would have reduced the deficit by $4 trillion. Instead, we spent two tense weeks and got a plan not nearly as large, one that will likely still result in a rating downground. The President even had the gumption to put entitlement reform on the table in his plan, and the republicans walked away. The President did exactly what the american people said; that is, this problem cannot be solved by cuts alone. There needs to be a closing of loop holes and tax credits which benefit mostly rich individuals and wealthy international corporations. So if the tea party got less than they wanted, they have only themselves to blame.
Crisis over: the Senate passed the plan 74-26. Obama will immediately sign.
Since it’s Obama, maybe he’ll use an autopen.
Mike, again, Progressives are misreading the polls. Ignore the media and look at the actual poll questions that were asked in the polling. People do not want higher taxes, but they do want to get rid of tax breaks, Democrats are right about that, and conservatives want that too, I think just about everyone wants a flatter tax code except for the people who benefit from the loopholes. Conservatives want to take that to the next level and create some kind of a “fair tax”, something Democrats would no doubt be opposed to, but that is a different matter. People do want a flatter tax code, they want to get rid of deductions for large corporations, etc, they want a fair and straight forward tax code that doesn’t reward politicians friends, but Progressives do themselves wrong when they try to take what is technically support for “tax increases” (getting rid of loopholes) and somehow turn that into a belief that there is support for “tax increases” (raising taxes). Yeah, there are some weirdo’s out there who actually want everyone to contribute more and have a bigger more helpful government, we call them Progressives, but your average person believes the government should be able to exist on the money it takes in now OR LESS. People want austerity, that is what they feel is fair, that is what is happening in their own personal finances, and that is what they want right now for their government, ignore that basic fact at your peril.
As for what you said about the President wanting reform and conservatives being against him on it, that simply isn’t true. That is just heat of the moment silliness that always surrounds a political fight, Republicans are just as guilty of filling the world with confusion when tensions get high. The reality is that conservatives and much of the public at large absolutely do want tax reform, entitlement reform, a balanced budget, etc, and so the President wants to look like wants all of those things too.
Barack Obama won.. he won big. Conservatives lost big time. I guess republicans won though ey… hehe Suckers!
Temp says People want austerity, Leftists say People want handouts.
I certainly hope not. I hope they want prosperity and freedom.
and guys like Henry Ryto and Mike Barrett just want more government soending.
Val, people want austerity to secure their prosperity and freedom //grin//.
Memo to JR,
1. Great to see lively debate in the combox!
2. We should start charging by the column inch.
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