Libertarian Challenge for State Senator Harry Blevins?
By D.J. Spiker | Saturday, May 28th, 2011 | Politics, VirginiaBearing Drift has learned that Robert Dean, former Virgina Beach Taxpayer Alliance head and Tidewater Libertarian Party head is contemplating a challenge to State Senator Harry Blevins.
With the vast majority of the district, the legislative district committee would make it virtually impossible to mount a winnable incumbent challenge. Given Dean’s polarizing views, there may be better opportunities for his passion and enthusiasm, perhaps the open Virginia Beach City Council seat.
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Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right...entrenched on the right as a member of the Establishment, proudly tattooed member of the Republican Party, bartender by trade serving both sides the libations needed to continue the debate and discourse. College student, ten years late, majoring in Public Policy and Administration with an eye to serving the conservative and Republican movement in the public or private sector. ducit amor patriae You can find D.J.on facebook, Twitter, or contact via email at gosport.conservative@gmail.com. You can find D.J.on facebook, Twitter, or contact via email at gosport.conservative@gmail.com.
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40 Responses to "Libertarian Challenge for State Senator Harry Blevins?"
I believe John Moss, Chairman of the Virginia Beach Taxpayers Alliance will be going after that open council spot, DJ.
Seeing that Senator Blevins is much beloved in Chesapeake by his constituents, Dean faces an uphill battle. If he chooses to run, I’d imagine it turns out quite a bit like the House race of Cosgrove v. Tabor from a few years ago.
I empathize with the VBTA and what they’re attempting to accomplish, but one has to wonder if running head-long into a wall begins to hurt over time?
JR, it was Tabor vs. Blevins. He didn’t run against Cosgrove. It was one of our findings that Blevins had very high positives in parts of Chesapeake back then.
I have yet to hear back from Robert on this. You guys heard about it before I did. Does DJ care to release the source that said Robert was thinking of doing this?
That’s right. I forgot…it was Mick Meyer running as the Democrat against Coz that year.
https://www.voterinfo.sbe.virginia.gov/election/DATA/2007/196E44FA-8B19-4240-9A44-737216DAA55D/Unofficial/7_s.shtml
I would certainly help Robert if he chose to run, but honestly, Blevins just isn’t the villain that he was back then. Don’t get me wrong. I still hold Blevins being a champion of HRTA against him, but HRTA is dead and buried. Back at that time his 2nd amendment record was also poor. In my view, Blevins doesn’t represent a threat to Hampton Roads and Virginia as he did back then. The race might actually be good for our party, but it is far more fun to chase after bad guys that need to be kept out of office.
I am very much looking forward to finding confirmation either way on this.
Robert Dean was an utter disaster as a member of City Council, and given the VBTA’s declining popularity and effectiveness, Senator Blevins hardly need even take note. Frankly, many think Robert has simply become unbalanced and not capable of behaving rationally in any given situation. The recent debacle in which Moss got less votes in his bid for Council than he did the last time, and 15% of the vote for the moribund VBTA just about states their electoral numbers. Perhaps the only beneficial aspect of this is to display once and for all what an inept and disfunctional organization Dean helped the moribund VBTA to become.
You heard it here, folks. Mike Barrett doesn’t like Robert Dean in the least! To some, that is quite the endorsement.
If Dean runs, be sure I receive the list of Blevins’ fundraisers. I’ll do my best to make at least one.
Dean has bigger problems at home: I’ve received intel about a schism in the VBTA Board of Directors over the issue of how much power Dean should be able to wield. Dean may try to move forward in the 14th, only to look behind and notice a big chunk of his frontbench is gone.
For the sake of Virginia Beach, let’s hope the dissenters leave the tiny breakfast cult and form an authentic grassroots conservative group.
Be honest, Henry and Mike. You guys launch ad hominem attacks on Moss & Dean all day and *cough* call for a real conservative grass roots movement to form. As if you really care for such a thing!
See, there has been all kinds of FAKE “advice” on Bearing Drift lately. A lot of crocodile tears and empty expressions of concern. Dean isn’t good enough for you. Moss isn’t good enough for you. Wally Erb isn’t good enough. Greenmun isn’t good enough for you. The truth is, you will find a “horrible” personality to attack no matter the leader.
Any true taxpayer advocate, you will find great fault with. It is just a matter of your political interests that conflict with taxpayer advocacy groups.
I’m hearing that there will be changes at the VBTA. It is a little different than you portray though, Henry. Tireless people do run empty at some point and have other interests to pursue while still staying active in the group. It isn’t easy filling those spots with dedicated people willing to put forth as much personal time and energy. One person putting in for a key position is just another person you already don’t like.
Nothing against you personally, Henry, but let’s be real about that.
Britt, the list isn’t about whom Dean, Moss and Erb aren’t good enough for. The list is about whom isn’t good enough for them.
They’d criticize Ivory soap for only being 99 44/100% pure.
That said, Robert Dean was a principled left-wing environmentalist Democrat before he decided to discover conservative principles.
It’s a shame. I’ve wanted to back those guys for years, but you disagree with them once, and you’re an enemy. Over years, that only shrinks your tent.
So Britt, despite your appreciation for Robert, don’t you see a pattern here? Dean gets involved, the organization shrinks and withers away. Dean supports a cause, 85% of the voters vote against it. At least Dean is consistent; he always loses badly. There may have been a time decades ago when Dean enjoyed a good reputation, good enough to be elected. But those days are long gone, and now, even his friends keep their distance. Be careful Britt.
Britt,
In the wake of the City’s 2001 Redistricting charade, I wanted to put together a minority communities – Deaniac coalition aimed at leveling the political playing field in Virginia Beach. What I came to learn is that Robert Dean wants nothing to do with you unless you buy into his program whole hog. Obviously the minority communities leaderships weren’t going to do that.
That mentality has left the VBTA more isolated than Enver Hoxha’s Albania.
Britt, I take issue with your comment above that Dean is an advocate for the taxpayer, In fact, quite the opposite is true. His opposition to PPVs like the one described below, if successful, would raise our tax rates, not lower them.
On the north side of Laskin, Bruce Thompson’s project will include 70,000 SF of office, 45,000 SF of retail, 170 apartments, and a 6 story parking deck. If it is true that the project is worth $80 M, it will produce about $9 M in annual real estate tax revenue. Across the street, a surface parking lot serves almost all the one story retail buildings, approximately 45,000 SF of retail, worth say $9 M, and the total real estate tax is $80,100.
So taxpayers of VB will be the beneficiaries of this investment in the public ROW that stimulates commercial development makes sense; same size block, 11 times more tax revenue. Payback of the city’s investment in less than four years.
Now Britt, you appear to be an intelligent person. How can you honestly say that Moss, Dean, Greenmun, Krause, et al, are working in the taxpayers interest when they oppose this and every other PPV that increases commercial real estate value and cuts our tax rates?
Brian, you are a different case than Henry & Mike. I think some of the VBTA don’t get the consultant thing. Or at least didn’t. The comments I heard about you revolved around your not being principled and selling your support for a buck. To me, that is just your job. You can compartmentalize. I don’t think I would want to do that personally, but that’s my preference. Lawyers and consultants have their place in the world. Clients of both need good representation.
Henry, I have disagreed with them before. Sure, you might get a little friction, but they accept differences. As for Robert, Libertarians are hardly monolithic. At meetings there are those that are pro-life & pro-choice. Don Tabor & I are a little more interventionist and believe in pre-emptive strikes when danger is eminent. There are many that have a Ron Paul view in the TLP. There is balancing of views. This idea that you have to be “pure” isn’t true. Robert has worked on coalitions with the Tea Party and 9/12 groups. That means more differences on social issues.
Some of those guys can hold a grudge, but look at you guys. Apparently grudges are on both sides. Sometimes you need to let past disagreements go so you can work together on issues you share. Well, if there is common ground.
Mike, a lot of PPVs amount to favor exchanges and near bribery. Sometimes they don’t make sense. With todays’s real estate market, I have to question the wisdom of building more apartments. The population has been stagnant or declining for a while now. I’m not sure the commercial market is doing so hot either. Say what you will, but the city HAS been over spending. When your housing prices continually go up, but wages aren’t, that other shoe is going to drop at some point. The city never accounted for the well one day drying up. They took that increased tax revenue for granted. A lot of what the VBTA SAYS IS TRUE! Today’s fiscal reality is proof of that fact.
If you can make a compelling case that all those spaces will be sold and not still being advertised years later…….maybe I can agree with you. Otherwise, I will side with the VBTA’s judgement on that. The economy on every level is in a bad way. That is just the truth. You have decent theory and maybe at some point it will even be applicable. In this case, I don’t think the environment is suitable.
Britt,
The VBTA’s idea of coalition building is working with other fringe right groups…and then they wonder why they can’t come close to winning an election? I rest my case that they’re clueless.
Never mind, Britt. By your answer, you simply reveal a predisposition to oppose the very strategies that benefit the taxpayer, just as do the moribund officers of the VBTA. Ironic, isn’t it. The City has the lowest tax rate and the best programs and services because of the contribution of the very projects the VBTA is unanimous in opposing. The only surprise is that they still get 15% of the vote instead of none.
Gee – the Ryto & Barrett show – nothing new here. The VBTA and Robert Dean get in the way of their agenda.
I serve on the VBTA Board – Every Board members shares the understanding that Robert Dean is the hardest working member of the VBTA Board when it comes to fighting corruption and working to advance Liberty and good governance by our local, state, and federal government.
Robert is retired and he has more time than most of the rest of the Board to work within the community and to deal with the media. Most of us volunteering to serve on the VBTA Board are not retired and we have day jobs that prevent us from being able to invest our time during the weekday. In my case I have a teenage daughter and I serve in my church, both make a lot of demands upon my time.
Robert knows a great deal about a great deal. His Conservative Principles are worth supporting should he run for the VA Senate. I don’t envy his desire to run for office. It is a nasty process that brings out the worse in so many who can’t wait to throw mud and defame others. But, knowing Mr. Dean, I am certain their vile noise doesn’t bother Robert as it might bother myself or others. He is pretty tough skinned. He has the conviction of his principles to shield him from the muck that will be thrown at him.
Oh, and Brian, you and I don’t always agree but I have never considered our disagreements any reason to consider you an “enemy”. Actually I respect your wiews and consider you as my friend. But I do understand why some of the VBTA Board has concerns with some of the candidates that you have worked to help get elected. Marty Williams is one such candidate. Rosemary Wilson and Jim Wood also come to mind. They are not “friends” of taxpayers.
Perhaps it isn’t that the VBTA Board views you as an “enemy” – that is probably too strong a word. It is more as they feel that they cannot trust you becuase you are viewed as being someone willing to become cozy in the “enemy camp” from time to time.
Just as several of the posting on this topic reveal so clearly, the VBTA does have true enemies. Of course when the VBTA stands up for taxpayers and confronts political corruption and decpetion head on, the VBTA is going to have enemies.
It is the price of standing up for integrity from our government and demanding honesty from those that assume positions of power as public servants and elected representatives. Nothing unusual about this. But … since the VBTA is a “friend” to taxpayers, who would be their “enemies”?
I don’t view Brian Kirwin as an “enemy” of taxpayers. Far from it. But a few of the folks he has worked to try to get elected? Well, they are not “friends” of taxpayers. They aren’t even good “representives”. They are more like a strange form of paid lobbyists working for money to pay for political campaigns that will allow them to “win” seats of power and control over the citizen’s money siezed by taxes, fees, and tolls.
Let me point out that the VBTA hasn’t stopped anything since 2002. Therefore, it gets in the way of nothing but rational debate.
Oh please Greenmun; when presented with specific and concrete evidence that your positions, if adopted, would have prevented numerous projects that have in fact, benefitted the taxpayer, Greenmun lapses back into ideology and myth. Look, it is absolutely no surprise that the moribund VBTA attracts but 15% of the vote. They are simply secretive, ideological to a fault, loyal to real losers, and frankly, wrong on the facts just about every time. So why should anyone really care what Dean and the rest of the over the hill gang says about anything? Senator Blevins must be celebrating as Dean’s involvement is bound to destroy the Libertarians just as it did CACI and the moribund VBTA and anything else he and Greenmun try to “help.”
Britt and Reid: Thank you for your kind words; they mean a great deal to me.
Mike Barrett is proving to be an asset as a case study for the medical community. He represents the absolute personification of someone personally dealing with complex obsessive and paranoia characteristics. Mike needs help with his delusions of grander.
Words cannot describe Henry Ryto, so I won’t try.
I will say that I would relish taking on H. Ryto in a public debate, but it would be cowardly of me to enter into verbal combat with an unarmed opponent which has also been the case with M. Barrett.
Mike & Henry’s medical conditions preclude me from reciprocating their personal attacks that they seem to enjoy. I’d rather stick to constitutional issues and fiscal conservative principles and the role of government. Mike Barrett has enumerated time and time again his distain for members of the VB GOP and republicans in general, so for me to put my toe into those waters is a waste of my time. Mike loves big government that requires high taxes and fees; I don’t, but that’s why I’m a Libertarian. That’s why Mike and Henry seem to dislike me and that’s a shame. But that’s why we have chocolate and vanilla.
I have no comments directed to Mr. Kerwin other than to invite him to attend a VBTA or Tidewater Libertarian Party (TLP) meeting and see first hand the quality of the folks who attend. No spoon-fed pablum at those meetings; only facts, figures and constitutional issues are discussed in a very open and heated venue. Now if this menu isn’t Mr. Kerwin’s cup of tea, then I’m sure he won’t take up the invitation, but if he does, he’ll be received with the same respect we extend to all who join us for invigorating conversations.
Let me be the first to state that my shortcomings never leave my side; Mike and Henry are my constant companions that keep reminding me that I’m but a mere mortal. Before Mike and Henry, God had that task.
But on the plus side, I have held an elected office and did garner 43 percent of the vote in a 3-way race against Mayor Oberndorf.
•I did work very hard for the two-time defeat of establishing a redevelopment and housing authority.
•I did work hard to help insure we have free speech rights at town center and on the campus of ODU.
•I am among the many who are constantly helping to preserve our 2nd Amendment rights, and fostering and protecting the other nine Bill of Rights.
•I work diligently to protect private property rights. The TLP submitted a amicus brief on behalf of Susette Kelo in the New London case before the US Supreme Court. Supported many businesses facing condemnation via eminent domain. I refer you to Waldo and Lyles for support testimony.
•Have vigorously pursued the elimination of the Business Professional Occupation License tax and the machinery and tool tax. Government performs no service that warrants a portion of those hard-earned revenues. None.
My few personal accomplishments aren’t part of this discussion, suffice it to say that I’m constantly trying to improve myself. I can assure you my personal standards and philosophy which make up my categorical imperative mandates certainly aren’t borrowed from the likes of Ryto and Barrett. They are constant and don’t change with political winds for personal and monetary gain. I find that disgusting.
I make no apologies for being a staunch constitutional and fiscal conservative. It’s me, it’s my life, and I have to live by those principles.
As John Adams said, “Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost.” John Adams. 6th US President.
May our thoughts be with those who lost loved ones in the many battles fought for our liberties and the preservation of our Republic.
Robert once again misses the point and reveals his profound misunderstanding of municipal finance and leading the municipal corporation. Fact is, I support the tactics and strategies that produce the lowest tax rate consistent with the quality programs and services demanded by our citizens. Fact is, Robert and his cohorts at the moribund VBTA specifically work against low taxes by opposing every initiative that has shown to produce commercial tax revenue so our tax rate can be the lowest in the region. I could care less about the VBTA’s professed principles or ideology; what I do care about is their profoundly irresponsible condemnation of the strategic vision and implementation that has produced such a livable city at such a remarkably low tax rate. Fortunately, so do 85% of our voters.
Robert,
Let’s take a look at the VBTA. You’ve lost virtually the entire donor base you had a decade ago. Your volunteer base is too small to win grassroots style. Your tactics are very wrong. (I’ve been schooled by GOPAC and RPV.) Your political agenda has drifted so far to the right that a majority of voters will never agree with it. You’ve alienated virtually every other group in town.
You’ve openly called for the defeat of 10 of 11 current Councilmen, so it’s not like you have 6 receptive sets of ears on the dais.
The bottom line: you don’t have the means to defeat the incumbents, and you have no leverage with the incumbents (except DeSteph). You’ve dug yourself into a hole you have no way out of.
That’s why you have to keep your own backbenchers constantly outwardly angry: otherwise they’d realize the biggest problem is their own ham-handed “leadership.”
Robert K Dean,
Well Said! It is a breath of fresh air to see someone in a political position standing up against bullies. When is this libertarian meeting? If Mike and Henry won’t go, there’s plenty of people who would.
Mike
-VB budget shortfalls
-overspending of the tax boom generated by the housing bubble
-closing of Plaza Elementary likely caused by young couples being priced out of the market.
-stagnating or declining population in recent years
-the city spent all their money and now the raid the schools. Stealing from our children. (The left has so much fun with “for the children” I thought I would try it).
The proof is in the results of the fiscal lunatics in Spore, Counciil and cohorts. You’re right Moss and other VBTA candidates failed to get elected last time and now you see the pathetic results of the Sessoms policies. Raiding the school system and short changed Public Safety. VB didn’t have to be skating on the brink. We would have been far better off with fiscal conservatives like Moss & Dean to back up Bill DeSteph.
The good thing about the VBTA not winning the elections is that you guys get to take credit for failed policies you tout as fiscally sound breaking the bank! You get credit for the budgetary canibalism going on. There are just so many instances where the VBTA can say, “I told you so”.
I have to give Henry credit on one front. I agree with him that tactics being used don’t make for successful campaigns. A lot of time is spent on policy, but not enough for prepping for future campaigns. Hopefully the newer networking with other groups will pay off with fresh blood and strategy manning the front lines.
Gee, Mike.. Are you and Kirwin kind of, almost, maybe, sort of a little bit on the same side on this one?
Well Britt, I apologize for thinking you had a clue about how to adopt policies that benefit the taxpayer. You are clearly on the same page as Robert, one of the 15% of our voting population who simply let ideology get in the way of effective governance. Robert’s tactics of hooting and hollaring at public hearings, laughing at those who show up to advocate, and yes, to plead for effective programs, and this year, for writing the speeches for all the so called “supporters” of the VBTA (read automatons), has resulted in an organization that is ineffective, disregarded, and ignored by decision makers. So Britt, enjoy the next meeting.
And Britt, get your facts straight; Dean and the moribund officers of the VBTA support the closing of schools and the replacement of all blue collar workers with government contractors.
You know, Tim J, it appears as if Brian, Henry, and I, and the 85% of voters in Virginia Beach who do not support the moribund VBTA, at least agree that these officers are over the hill and are not only tone deaf, but incapable of understanding that their message does not resonate with the broad majority of the voters. To think that their President got 15% of the votes in the last election and they still think they should be setting the agenda in VB. Bizarre.
As popular is Senator Blevins is, he has cast some shameful votes in the last session, among them voting to allow Omegas Protein’s continued destruction of the menhaden, base of the food chain and environment in the Chesapeake Bay. Our farmers will pay the price for that, as the EPA clamps down on fertilizer use to make up for the lack of the menhaden’s traditional filter feeding cleanup of algae blooms.
But still, Blevins has a large following in Chesapeake. Even if the Dmeocrats choose not to oppose him, he still should not run unopposed. So, I certainly support a Libertarian challenge.
Robert has a long and impressive resume and would make a good candidate, and I will support him if he runs. I think his primary difficulty is that he lives in Virginia Beach and 80% of the district appears to still be in Chesapeake giving him outsider status among Chesapeake voters.
But Libertarians always face an uphill battle, since we have trouble raising money from special intetrests who know we will not give them anything in return, other than good government.
Dream on Tabor if you expect good government from Robert Dean. His performance as a member of the VB City Council was forgettable at least, disastrous at worst. Frequently confused, he often could not get a second for his motions. The custom then was for the borough councilman to make the motion if the item was in his/her borough, but Robert was often so perplexed that he simply refused to do so, and abstained when the vote was open. One term and out; that about wraps up his legislative history. Maybe that is good enough to be the Libertarian Party standard.
Don, I would not worry about Mr. Barrett’s snide remarks – afterall he has never run for elected office and won but he was fired by a Democratic Party governor for his role in helping SPSA nearly go bankrupt. A decision making role involving millions of tax dollars that he was APPOINTED to – and he was still fired!
Somehow, leaving the board when my term was up is translated by Greenmun into getting fired. I guess he is just used to using exaggerations as fact. I guess our action at SPSA to sell the waste to energy plant and recycling facilities to the private sector, and to reduce debt by $150 M, is somehow the wrong thing to do in Reid’s mind. Of course, Reid loves to dish it out by can’t believe anyone would counter his daily output of misperceptions and exaggerations. He is part of the moribund VBTA that keeps losing market share. Anyone surprised?
I don’t want to go into the SPSA thing. Mike, didn’t you even previously state that things weren’t run the way the should have? Granted that would be an obvious point given the outcome, but so is the current budgetary state we are in in VB and didn’t have to be. You seem to ignore all that, Mike. I guess because it gives credence to the idea of fiscal budgeting and not full bore spending all the time. Some economic climates and atmospheres are great for development. We are just not in one. Council & Management clearly haven’t been dealing with reality for a long time.
Another thing, Mike, you take Ben’s idea of complete privatization (which I don’t agree with, btw) and assign that to VBTA as a whole. It isn’t accurate and far from fair. I have never seen a council meeting with Robert on it. I have however, seen Robert at work in the VBTA Meetings I visited, countless Libertarian Party meetings, and a debate with our legal counsel at the time Stephen Merrill. He seems pretty sharp to me!
All you really have is name calling.
Yes Britt, in my early SPSA tenure, VB lost on a lot of 7-1 votes. But gradually, our positions were shown to be accurate, and we gradually won over other votes, which allowed the Board to set a new direction. The sale of WTE, the privitization of recycling, staff reductions and changes, all led to significant reform.
In regard to Krause’s manifesto, written for John Moss when he ran before, no one on the VBTA board has ever publicly refuted it. Moss simply cannot ignore the document if he ever expects to gain more than 15% of the vote. Someday, the moribund officers of the VBTA will realize that the large majority of citizens in Virginia Beach do not support enforced extreme austerity and are willing to be taxed for outstanding schools, public safety, parks and recreation, social services, and courts and justice facilities.
Until they do, they can keep howling into the wind, and get fewer votes each time they run.
Mike Barrett May 31, 2011 09:03 am
“…Robert’s tactics of hooting and hollaring at public hearings, laughing at those who show up to advocate, and yes, to plead for effective programs.”
Mike Barrett, as I’ve stated before when you first made this inflammatory statement following the 2010 budget hearing, “YOU ARE A LIAR” and I am calling you out for lying. Have you no shame? I have the proof that what you said above is, in fact, and I’ll say it again, a lie. Meet me in a public setting with your Blurred Vision group and I’ll prove once and for all you are a liar. And bring the boys and girls from the Chamber with you.
It probably will be to no avail though, for you are continuing to be an asset as a case study for the medical community. You represents the absolute personification of someone personally dealing with complex obsessive and paranoia characteristics. Mike, you need help with your delusions of grander.
My City Council performance: I refer you to John Moss, Nancy Parker and Meyera Oberndorf for their opinions. The Princess Anne Borough, which I represented at the time was a fast-growing area, and with every proposal presented by staff, I always demanded the very best information available so I could do my due diligence and make sound decisions. If that’s a fault, then I stand by my faults. No rubber stamps for me; no developers telling me how to vote. Their campaign contributions weren’t worth the sacrifice of my integrity and character. Sorry if I don’t fit “Mike the Liar’s” mold.
Thanks Robert for saying you stand by your faults. Frankly, that is no reason to further subject the voters to your incompetence in office. Perhaps as well, you have forgotten that John Moss received less than 15% of the vote in the last election, less than he received the time before. Do you have any current advocates that can attest to your current capabilities?
Mike, just because a friend puts forth a proposal that you don’t agree with, that doesn’t medan you publicly attack his offering or him. I have a lot of respect for Ben. I don’t think any harm was done by Moss handling it the way he did.
As for Moss getting 15%, you have an already sitting Bill Desteph and the an establishment friendly Belitto running for the 2 spots. That is hard to over come. Which brings me to a point that Henry raised. Tactics. The fact that Wally Erb insisted on running did not help. 3 guys that are fiscally conservative running for 2 spots. It doesn’t take Karl Rove to figure out that is self-defeating and demoralizing to suppporters choosing sides and splitting votes.
Britt,
Maybe then you can answer the question that puzzles me: why did Moss run At-Large when he could have had a head-on with Louis Jones in his home Bayside District? District races are easier to win.
Britt, no dice. In the best scenario for Moss, add all of Erb’s votes; he still shows like a has been. Frankly, I don’t buy your analysis; Krause sent his infamous manifesto to John Moss, copy to others. It is as if Krause considered himself to be an advisor to Moss. Fact is, no matter how you cut it, Moss, Dean, Krause, Greenmun, et al are yesterday’s news, so far out of the mainstream that their opinions simply don’t count with any group except their own.
In Krause’s manifesto, he shows how no organized group in Virginia Beach, no matter the issue or the subject, is free of condemnation by the VBTA. Since Americans do their work in groups, it is not an effective strategy to tick off every group in your city. Now frankly, if the Libertarians want Dean, they had better know that he comes with baggage that will sink their own cause.
I have to again agree with you, Henry. It was also the fight I was hungry for. The explaination I heard was that he would have in a 2 man race, but there was already someone in it. (I forgot his name) I guess you could add that Louis Jones would have had a substantial incumbent & financial advantage. I guess the idea was the 2nd at large seat was an easier pick and Moss wanted to form some sort of coalition with Desteph and pull in his votes. I agree with Moss & Erb on a lot of things, but the whole thing seemed crazy to me. People make mistakes.
Re: Krause,
Mike you can have an advisor that you don’t agree with 100% on. I don’t get why you continue to paint John with that one particular idea that someone else came up with. That would be like tying you to every decision and position of your allies that you fail to vehemently condemn at the expense of future joint efforts. That wouldn’t be fair either.
Mike, I understand your math, but the math doesn’t account for the effect of demoralized supporters. Success breeds success and you haved to sell your cause to your friends first. When there are 2 seats and 3 guys with some splitting of sides tells everyone right off not to get to excited.
Well Britt, frankly, discussing this is of little to no value. Dean, with the legacy of the mistakes and gaffs perpetuated by him and VBTA, has a following of a very limited number of people, and those followers, to the degree that they have gone out of their way to insult anyone that does not agree with them 100% of the time, have little influence on anyone else. So frankly, if the libertarians want him, please take him. Just realize you have been warned.
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