Politics trumps good governance in Wisconsin
By | Thursday, March 10th, 2011 | Policy, Politics

I know that many who read Bearing Drift and who contribute are pleased with what happened last night in Wisconsin.  Some think this is the end of the battle over collective bargaining in Wisconsin, but I think it’s just the beginning of a broader war. That broader war – like most wars – will prove to be, in my opinion, unnecessary and destructive.  Things didn’t have to happen this way.

I know there are many people, particularly in my party, who are proud of what Scott Walker and the Senate Republicans have done. They think gutting collective bargaining is the panacea that will solve all of the budgetary ills that states like California, New York, Wisconsin and others face.  But there’s no evidence that this is true.  Just take a look at the federal government – where workers have next to no collective bargaining rights and public sector salaries are just as high – if not higher – than those you’ll find in the states and the budget deficits are even more ridiculous.  If collective bargaining is really the problem, why are things bad even where it isn’t available?  Because things are bad everywhere, and its up to legislators to make the  tough decisions needed to govern, not play politics.

What the Wisconsin Senate did last night will not close their budget gap.  All it did was cause unnecessary conflict and gave the news media something to cover between Charlie Sheen eruptions.  What happened in Wisconsin is what happens when elected officials care more about politics than they do about governing.

What bothers me the most about what happened last night in Wisconsin is what I have said has bothered me since this entire “crisis” began – it was completely unnecessary.  It was a trumped up, manufactured crisis that could have been ended at any time.  Governor Walker has said time and time again that the issue here is balancing the state budget.  Last night proved that this wasn’t true.  By stripping out all of the budget related stuff and passing the rump bill that guts collective bargaining for public sector workers, the Republicans in the Senate and the Governor himself have demonstrated that this was not about balancing the budget, it was about busting the unions.  Balancing the budget is necessary.  Taking away the rights of tens of thousands of workers is not.

It should be clear now to all Americans that what happened in Wisconsin wasn’t about governing. It was about politics. And it is that kind of politics that poisons our political process and makes it harder for people to work together to get things done.  I’ve been critical of the Senate Democrats in Wisconsin for running away, but at the same time I have to be critical of the Senate Republicans for what they’ve allowed to happen as well.  None of these protests had to happen. None of the people who have been arrested and manhandled by police for exercising their First Amendment rights had to be find themselves in that position. Thousands of workers didn’t have to have the stress of an impending layoff hanging over their head.  These Senate Republicans could have done their procedural move and “won” their battle without the last month of union bashing that has swept across the country.  As a labor Republican, it is frustrating to me to see such a damaging and completely unnecessary fight being waged in the heartland of America by members of my own party.  There’s no legitimate reason for it. It was pure politics, and the worst kind of politics too – the kind that hurts you more than it helps you. Almost half of all union households contain Republicans, like mine, and there’s no excuse for my party to attack those people simply because they pay dues and hold a union card.  Attacking all of us will not balance a budget or create a job.

I have been advocating for a long time that Republicans need to stop attacking labor and start working together on issues that we can all agree on.  The maritime industry is one place where we’ve proven that unions and management can work together.  If unions and management can work together, there’s no reason why unions and Republicans can’t do so.  But when folks like Governor Walker want to raise their political profiles at the expense of the working men and women of their states, I think that’s counterproductive and unfortunate.

Walker has every right to set his own agenda. He won the election.  But the campaign is over.  It’s time for the politics to stop and the governing to begin.  And that’s where Governor Walker – and my friend Skiles – get it wrong. Wisconsin has a legitimate budget problem, and the legislators there need to focus on that problem.  Taking away the rights of some workers to sit down and bargain will not solve their budget problems, nor will they solve the budget problems many states find themselves in.  Virginia, for example, does not allow for any collective bargaining by public sector workers and we still had a significant budget deficit to make up – and we did so through the hard work of Governor McDonnell, Lt. Governor Bolling and the men and women in our General Assembly. And they did it without grandstanding, without creating PR firestorms, and without Governor McDonnell doing every Sunday TV talk show and every radio program around the country raising his presidential or VP profile.  That’s what governing is all about. Quiet competence, not PR stunts.  That’s why Bob McDonnell is a true leader and Walker is an opportunist.

Walker had a legitimate point about balancing the budget that no one could argue with. In times like these, we all need to make sacrifices, including public sector workers. That’s why the unions involved here were willing to accept the cuts he proposed.  But he couldn’t take those concessions, declare victory and move forward.  It wasn’t until Walker overreached that these protests began.  Balancing the budget is a legitimate reason to demand concessions.  But taking away the collective bargaining rights of these workers will not save the taxpayers a dime.  And the argument that Walker uses about collective bargaining – namely that it’s hard for local governments to bargain and they need ‘flexibility’ – is a poor one as well.  You might as well argue that we should do away with the trial by jury because it’s a pain to get jurors to show up and the system is slow and unwieldy.  These public workers in Wisconsin have had the right to bargain collectively for over 50 years.  Now that right has been taken away.  As a Republican,  I cherish all of the rights I maintain – the natural, God-given rights, the rights protected by the federal and Virginia constitutions, and the rights protected by the Virginia legislature. It should be a very big deal for anyone to take those rights away.  But in Wisconsin it wasn’t.  And that’s just wrong.

I have to give Governor Walker credit – he has managed to do in a month what the leaders of the labor movement have been trying to do for years: he has energized unions and their members in a way I have never seen.

While this chapter appears now to be closed, I hope that what has happened in Wisconsin can be salvaged and some good can come from it.  I hope that I can convince some of my fellow Republicans that the labor movement isn’t the source of all evil in the universe.  And, conversely, I hope I can convince my union colleagues that not all Republicans want to shut them down and there are plenty of guys like me and Bob McDonnell out there who care more about competent governing than we do about looking good on TV.  But until we get past these petty tit-for-tat political games, we’re not going to make any progress.  I know that the Governor supports what Walker is doing, but he has to support a fellow Republican Governor. What matters is that he hasn’t done these kinds of PR stunts here in Virginia. That’s a tribute to his competence and his desire to govern, not simply keep campaigning.  The permanent campaign has led to too much petty political maneuvering in our national debates.

The stakes are too high for too many families and for our nation’s future for this kind of petty politicking.  It’s time to stop playing games and start governing. That’s what really matters and that’s what we elected these men and women to do.

 


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About the author

Brian Schoeneman

A veteran political professional, a long-time Republican party activist and new attorney, Brian W. Schoeneman has been offering his opinions at Bearing Drift since 2010. He serves on the Board of Virginia Line Media, LLC, which operates Bearing Drift and spends his days representing the U.S. Merchant Marine in Washington, D.C. He hails from Fairfax County, Virginia, where he lives with his wife and son.

Comments

47 Responses to "Politics trumps good governance in Wisconsin"
  1. J.R. Hoeft March 10, 2011 21:03 pm

    If there is any need for further proof that Bearing Drift is a loose collective of individuals who represent the broad cross-section that is conservatism, one only need to read your piece, Brian.

    Your lament, though, is clearly not what I believe, nor many others on this website…mainly because you believe this:

    “taking away the rights of some workers to sit down and bargain will not solve their budget problems”

    Please, in the “Bill of Rights” tell me where it is the “right” of a public employee to collectively bargain?

    Has their ability to assemble been infringed?
    Have they been able to have a redress of grievances?
    How about speech – is that gone?
    How about the vote? Did they get the chance to vote in the last election and will they have that same opportunity in whatever campaigns for recall may or may not occur?

    No. No rights have been taken away – merely power.

    And isn’t that what this really is all about? Union power, influence, and money?

    I guess Organizing for America will have to spend extra money on the 2012 campaign in Battleground Wisconsin since there might not be so many workers paying union dues!

  2. Brian Schoeneman March 10, 2011 21:22 pm

    Yes, rights have been taken away, J.R. We have more rights than those that are specifically enumerated in the Constitution – either Virginia or Federal.

    For example, the right to marry. The Supreme Court has ruled that the right to marry is a fundamental right, but you won’t see that anywhere (other than the marriage amendments of the last few years defining it) in any of those documents. Does it not exist because it’s not in the bill of rights?

    People have fought and died for the right to have a say in their workplace. Those rights have now been taken away for these workers. The legislature of Wisconsin granted those workers the right to negotiate 50 years ago. You can call it a privilege if you prefer, but they’ve had it as a right for over half a century. Now they don’t. And the reasons given for justifying taking it away don’t make any sense. Every conservative should really be concerned with how quickly a right that people have replied upon for decades was taken away.

    You can make the argument that this is about union power, influence and money but if that’s the case, there’s no reason why we should be having this debate in the context of Wisconsin balancing their budget. That’s simply obfuscation.

    Yes, there will be fewer workers paying union dues in Wisconsin – because they won’t have jobs. I don’t think that’s funny. These are people’s lives we’re talking about.

  3. Amy Kingery March 10, 2011 21:23 pm

    exactly why do they need to “collective” bargain anyway….for power over all of us? ..otherwise they could bargain individually…This union stuff has gotten out of control…Balance is the answer.

  4. Brian Schoeneman March 10, 2011 21:27 pm

    I would prefer that they do their jobs instead of spending their time worrying about their pay and benefits.

    You can’t really bargain individually. If you think you can, go into Wal-Mart and try and haggle over the price of a pair of pants.

    I agree that there has to be balance and here, the balance would have been that the unions take the pay concessions and Walker back off the bargaining issue. But that didn’t happen.

  5. Shane M. March 10, 2011 21:42 pm

    Hey Jim, I believe it’s called the 10th amendment. And yes, their right has been taken away and the claimed purpose is largely bogus.

    For the record, I can’t say I’m too surprised the Reps pulled a shady move such as this. In my estimation the Dems have been hiding in the shade of Illinois stunting the democratic process they presumably would have sworn to uphold.

    Now if I were the Reps I’d immediately move to withdraw or nullify the passed legislation the moment quorum is had, then vote in the legislation Walker wanted. That law would presumably be a tougher law to overturn than what the Reps have presently passed.

    It’s shady, but hey, in for a penny, in for a pound.

  6. Valentinus March 10, 2011 22:34 pm

    We are just rehashing the same points in previous posts without any acknowledgment let alone serious response to the contradictions and inconsistencies of this position. At least present a new thought.

    Unions can be galvanized all they want in advancing their narrow self (and Dem) interest. Are they going to be galvanized in confronting and resolving the hard fact that states with heavy unionization of public sector employees and to a lesser extent private sector unions are in bad and worsening shape losing jobs and people? Are they going to be galvanized to give students a world class education or just the same left wing indoctrination which leaves us about #15? If they don’t address these issues they will be a destructive force only and will crash.

  7. Brian W. Schoeneman March 10, 2011 23:09 pm

    Valentinus, I don’t buy the idea that it’s the fact that there is “heavy unionization” in those states that is causing the bad and worsening conditions in some states. There’s a lot that goes into the causes of economic downturns in a variety of states, and I’ve seen no good evidence that the existence or the prevalence unions is to blame. All of those arguments are post hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacies.

    For all of the evidence that our educational system stinks compared to the rest of the world, the last time I checked we were the most powerful nation the planet has ever seen, our economy is larger than any of our nearest rivals, we manufacture more here than our top competitors combined, and we are still a beacon of hope to the rest of the world. If we can do all that with the #15 educational system, what’s the problem?

  8. Valentinus March 10, 2011 23:11 pm

    One last thought: There is a very nice field study that is going to take place in the midwest. One state IL is led by a traditional leftist Dem gov and legislature controlled by the Chicago machine and the public sector unions. The surrounding states are led by Republicans who are trying to reduce government expenditures and grow the private sector. Lets see what happens over the next 2 years in this comparison.

  9. J.R. Hoeft March 10, 2011 23:13 pm

    OK, Brian…let’s propose a collective bargaining agreement for national defense. Clearly there’s too much war and American fighting men and women are being asked to do too arduous a duty. They should have an advocate.

    The police should just sit down. Clearly crime will just stop.

    The fire department should also take a hike. Who needed that house anyway?

    How is this any different from a teacher or other public servant?

    As an aside, have you seen any public worker in Virginia go hungry from poor treatment by the government? It seems our public workers are doing pretty well in our “right to work” state.

  10. Valentinus March 10, 2011 23:21 pm

    Brian, Thanks for answering my question.

  11. Jay D March 10, 2011 23:29 pm

    Brian, as before you jumble up 2 very separate issues and entities – PUBLIC government employee and PRIVATE employee unions. I know you know the difference. Purposeful co-mingling indicates that the union argument (along with voter support) for PUBLIC employee collective bargaining ‘rights’ can’t stand up alone.

    Completely agree with J.R. – collective bargaining is NOT a bonafide, guaranteed ‘right’. If it were, every citizen would have the right to CB – we do not. Public sector collective bargaining is an AGREEMENT (between unions and legislators) outlining agreed upon work rules, wages, benefits, lunch breaks, work hours, overtime, etc. AGREEMENTS and contracts, as you know, include expire dates, allowing both parties to renegotiate NEW mutually acceptable terms, or dissolve the partnership.

    PUBLIC unions, OTOH, use the legislative process to avoid making concessions on wages, healthcare, tenure, and pensions.
    “They want to negotiate and get everything they can at the bargaining table and then when they get it – they want to lock it in by statute so that you can never negotiate it again. If it was not a violation of collective bargaining to lock this stuff in by statute when it was helping them, it certainly is not a violation when it is reducing benefits and helping the taxpayers.” ~ Gov. Cris Christie

  12. Billy Bunn March 10, 2011 23:30 pm

    I’m confused on one point — you seem to believe that the ability of a state government worker to collectively bargain for taxpayer money is a sacred right, a natural, God-given right that’s up there with marriage and free speech. But you acknowledge that neither Virginia state workers nor federal employees have that so-called “right”. If government-employee collective bargaining is a natural, God-given right, should we not all be protesting daily in Richmond demanding Virginia catch up to the rest of the enlightened states like Wisconsin and Ohio, Vermont and Rhode Island?

    You are correct, Governor McDonnell was able to tackle Virginia’s financial woes without having to pull the PR stunt of taking on state employee unions — but, as you pointed out, that’s because we don’t have state employee unions. If we did, I would be proud of our Governor to display the intestinal fortitude that we see coming out of Madison.

  13. Jay D March 11, 2011 00:02 am

    Brian, I hate to heap it on, but McDonnel didn’t do squat to cut back VRS costs. The final agreement, as I understand it: current state employees will now pay a 5 percent VRS contribution, which will be offset by a 5 percent salary increase. Instead of cutting costs, the plan raised the salary base for state employees. He’s a tough negotiator, our Bob.

    Progress on moving state employees off defined benefit and onto defined contribution retirement plans? None. Tabled to next session. Competence? Good governing? You’re kidding me, right?

  14. Brian Kirwin March 11, 2011 06:53 am

    What if the taxpayers “collectively bargained” to stop paying taxes?

  15. Brian W. Schoeneman March 11, 2011 07:12 am

    JR, many DoD employees (not active duty military, but you know there are plenty of military style jobs done by civilians) have unions and often meet and confer as unions with the bureaucrats. I was involved in a years long meet and confer process with DoD a few years ago. It happens. And it hasn’t hindered our ability to go to war at all.

    Virginia is well run. Not every state is well run. If I were a public sector worker in California, I’d want a union too.

    JayD, for the last time, I’m not jumbling up anything. I said public sector over and over and over again in my article. We’re not talking about private sector unions. That being said, nobody has made a good case to me why private sector workers should be allowed to negotiate and public sector workers shouldn’t. The Republican mantra I’ve been hearing my whole life is that government should be run like a business – and in business, you have to bargain with your unions if you have them. Why are we putting stock in anything FDR said?

    I’ve already explained that there are a lot of different rights – some God-given, some constitutionally protected, and some protected by the legislature. Collective bargaining in Wisconsin for those workers was one of the legislatively protected rights. That doesn’t make it any less bonafide than any other right out there. You may as well argue that any right that can be taken away isn’t truly a right – which means the vast majority of them, from the Constitution on down because all it takes is a Constitutional amendment to strip those rights and they could be gone.

    Every state is different and one size does not fit all. What works for one state may not work in the Commonwealth. Our system as it stands now is working, so I don’t feel the need to change it. Likewise, in Wisconsin, there’s no evidence that their system was the stumbling block to all the budgetary woes, so I didn’t see the need to change it. As I’ve said before, collective bargaining alone costs nothing.

    The public sector unions negotiate with representatives of the executive branch in the states that have collective bargaining for public workers. Not with legislatures and not directly with the taxpayers. That’s no different than in a Fortune 500 company where the executives – often hired specifically for that purpose – negotiate with the unions, not directly with the shareholders who actually own the company. In either case, the real owners aren’t the ones doing the negotiating, because the real owners have hired people to do that for them.

    As for McDonnell, we’ve got two more years yet to work on VRS costs. What he did was get the workers to pay a portion of the burden, and that’s a big start. Yes, they got a 5% pay increase, but they hadn’t received any increases for years. And we were able to balance the budget without raising taxes. I have personally argued for paying back the VRS loans immediately, by the way.

    Brian, we do – it’s called an election.

  16. Brian Kirwin March 11, 2011 07:52 am

    Brian, elections aren’t a strike.

    I’m serious. People can boycott a private sector company to their hearts desire, but they can’t boycott taxes.

    There is a HUGE difference between private sector unions and government unions that you are failing to understand.

  17. John Jackson March 11, 2011 08:18 am

    Brian K. – He doesn’t want too.

  18. Billy Bunn March 11, 2011 09:07 am

    Interesting back-and-forth: Brian K. asked what would happen if taxpayers “collectively bargained” to stop paying taxes; Brian S. replied that taxpayers do collectively bargain: it’s called elections.

    Okay: well, the taxpayers of Wisconsin used their “collective bargaining” power in November, and this is the result. How dissapointed would the taxpayers be with their “union leadership” (the governor and state representatives) if they didn’t hold true to their principles…

  19. Brian Schoeneman March 11, 2011 09:18 am

    Kirwin, no, elections aren’t a strike. At the same time, no one is suggesting that the shareholders of a publicly traded company should go to jail if the want to sell their shares.

    Elections are how the public decides who sits at the bargaining table for them – that is my point. But at the very least, they should sit down. Walker and his buddies don’t even want to talk. Why is that okay? A conversation has never hurt anyone.

  20. James Young March 11, 2011 10:01 am

    You know, as something of an authority on these issues, I was going to jump in to dispel the many union myths/misrepresentations in Brian’s post, but Jim and Brian Kirwin are doing just fine without me.

  21. James Young March 11, 2011 10:10 am

    And why not politics, by the way? The only Republicans who support public-sector monopoly bargaining power are Republicans so stupid as to provide for the illicit, forced, government-subsidized funding of their ideological enemies. Samuel Francis once dubbed the GOP “the Stupid Party,” but Republicans who perpetuate union privilege make a case for the moniker “Damn-Fool Party.” These people DON’T support Republicans, WON’T support Republicans, and those Republicans who believe that their opposition can temporarily be bought off or at least redirected toward others are interested only in maintaining their own power and privilege, not in enacting good public policy.

    Also, I know of NO ONE — particularly Right to Work supporters — who want to “shut unions down.” If, of course, you mean that unions WILL shut down if their power of monopoly representation and the ability to force people to pay dues is denied, then they SHOULD shut down, and the topic of the conversation is markedly different than the one you seem to want to have.

  22. Brian W. Schoeneman March 11, 2011 11:42 am

    James, to say that these people “don’t support unions, won’t support unions” is flat out wrong. Almost half of the union households in the United States vote Republican or contain at least one individual who does. I’m tired of you guys acting like no one in the labor movement votes Republican. It’s simply not true.

    As for the giving, if we keep doing things like this, these guys will have no reason to give to us. Unions weren’t always the ATM for the Democratic party. But when you have guys like Walker out there attacking these unions under the false pretense of trying to balance their budgets when they’re clearly just dishing out political payback, it sets my efforts and those of like minded Republicans like me back years.

    Call me stupid all you want. That doesn’t make it so.

  23. William Bailey March 11, 2011 12:21 pm

    Brian S.: Give it up. I’ve tried to explain that union member vote GOP to these folks for years. They just don’t get it… Even in Wisconsin, the cops and firefighter unions rights are not impacted by the new law. Cops and firefighters union members still retain all their bargaining rights so one can’t just claim this as an anti-union measure.

    As for a strike, in most places that is against the law for public employees… But you’ll see the quality of service decline as the public workers start dragging their feet meeting minimum standards. It isn’t a strike but then again… Remember nothing that happens goes without a response and a reaction.

  24. Justin T March 11, 2011 13:01 pm

    It is strange… “Police and firefighters are exempt” was removed from the first AP report by SCOTT BAUER. WHY???

    Whether you are a taxpayer wanting to abolish collective bargaining or cut government spending, etc., or a WI union teacher wanting to preserve your household, all of us must demand immediate answers for some very simple questions, such as…

    Why is there no discussion over the double standard that exempts police and firefighters?

    Why is it so difficult, through any reasonable web search, to find SCOTT BAUER’s original AP version with the statement “Police and firefighters are exempt”?

    Why is Scott Bauer’s current report sanitized and white washed? Is it for reasons of power, politics, etc.?

    Is it merely coincidence that teachers supported WI Democrats and their collective bargaining rights are removed?

    Is it merely coincidence that police and firefighters supported the GOP ticket and they are exempt?

    Is it merely coincidence that the exempt group is trained to receive and execute orders by politicians?

    Where might this state trend lead, to a police state in all states?

    Rome’s fall was precipitated by fiscal collapse brought about by political leaders jealously guarding their power with overextended armies and local police that quashed liberties and opposition at home. Is America on this road so soon after maturity?

    Again, why is there no discussion over the double standard that exempts police and firefighters?

    Why was SCOTT BAUER’s original reporting that contained this message yanked?

    A free press armed with independent journalists is the best offense and defense for liberty and justice.

  25. Brian Kirwin March 11, 2011 13:41 pm

    “As for a strike, in most places that is against the law for public employees… But you’ll see the quality of service decline as the public workers start dragging their feet meeting minimum standards. It isn’t a strike but then again… Remember nothing that happens goes without a response and a reaction.”

    William, are you saying public safety employees, like you for instance, will do less than your best in response to a union dispute?????

  26. Billy Bunn March 11, 2011 13:54 pm

    Umm, okay, I’ll bite.

    The exemption for the police and firefighters, in my opinion, is not a double-standard; it’s a different standard. They face dangers and daily stresses that only combat veterans could relate to. The reason you don’t see it discussed, I believe, is because 99.9% of Americans agree that police and firefighters should receive special pay, benefits, and incentives that other government workers do not. As a fireman mentioned the other day when discussing early retirement, most folks don’t want a group of tenured 63-year-old firemen showing up at their burning house.

    Now, when you say: “Is it merely coincidence that the exempt group is trained to receive and execute orders by politicians?”, and follow up with a question about a police state, it sounds like you’re insinuating that Governor Walker is protecting firemen and police so that the GOP can bring about a police state by unleashing those individuals against the rest of the public, quashing their liberties. Is that what you’re saying?

    I love a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy, but come on…

  27. William Bailey March 11, 2011 14:56 pm

    Brian K.: Not me… However, I do remember a few years ago when our fire career/volunteer paramedics took an “89 leave of absence” which was permitted under the rules inplace at that time and it immediately brought the city to ask “what can we do to get them back?” I told them what was needed and…

    Shortly thereafter, there were 35 career paramedics positions created in the ems department and 120 paid paramedic serving the citizens of Virginia Beach. Like magic the citizens of Virginia Beach had a reliable & staffed emergency response system. :-)

    I hope it doesn’t come down to it anytime in our future(I wouldn’t support it) but I think folks are folks and employees: teachers, waste management drivers and others will do what they think they need to do.

  28. Justin T March 11, 2011 18:00 pm

    Billy… I don’t buy it and certainly not your claim of 99.9% of Americans agreeing on anything. Not even motherhood and apple pie comes close.

    If dangers and daily stresses were the driving factors of police pay, then higher and lower pay would correlate with crime-ridden cities and bedroom communities. It does not.

    I encourage you to run for city council and get yourself appointed to a labor negotiations committee. Your outlook will likely change and you may even higher private security and install video surveillance during labor negotiations to keep your family safe.

  29. James Young March 11, 2011 21:49 pm

    Brian, I agree that “to say that these people ‘don’t support unions, won’t support unions’ is flat out wrong.”

    ‘Fact is, I DIDN’T say that!!! I didn’t say anything like that.

    What I said was labor unions INSTITUTIONALLY “DON’T support Republicans, WON’T support Republicans,” and of course, I was referring to union leadership which makes the decisions where union money and resources go. You’re absolutely right that many union members support Republicans. But their union DUES almost exclusively supports Democrats, and to suggest otherwise is either a misrepresentation or singularly ignorant of the facts.

  30. James Young March 11, 2011 21:55 pm

    It’s also besides the point. Poll after poll demonstrates that most Americans support the principle that someone should NOT have to pay union dues to get or keep a job. My commitment to that principle is not dependent upon whether it is politically advantageous; it’s simply the right thing to do in a nation which respects liberty.

    Likewise, my opposition to public-sector collective bargaining is based in the principle that no group should be given a preferred place at the table over the allocation of scarce public resources.

  31. Jay D March 11, 2011 22:24 pm

    Brian, I guess I just missed the history class (and news reports) on PUBLIC sector union battles where “People fought and died for the right to have a say in their workplace.” :)

  32. Brian W. Schoeneman March 11, 2011 22:39 pm

    Sorry – it’s hard to tell who you mean when you say “these people.” But even if you meant union leadres, you’re still wrong. I wouldn’t have a job if union leaders were adamantly opposed to having anything to do with Republicans. A quick review of Opensecrets.org demonstrates that the top 25 unions have given millions in PAC money over the years to support Republicans. Do they give more to Democrats? Of course. But to act like nothing ever goes to Republicans ignores the facts. As I’ve said before, my union has worked closely with Republicans over the years and the fact that they’d hire one to do their lobbying is all the proof anyone needs that your contention is wrong.

    Personally, I don’t like seeing dues money go to politics at all, and I’ve never worked for a union that spent dues money on politics. Both unions I’ve worked for have had voluntary political action committees and that’s where their cash came from. Not every union is the same.

    And, as I’ve already told you here and in person, I don’t support forced unionization.

    I don’t believe that any groups should be given a preferred place at the table. But I do think unions – as the representatives of the workers who have so selected them – deserve A place at the table. That’s all these guys are asking for. It’s not too much to ask.

    JayD, public sector unions are part of the labor movement, and they can claim the same history as the rest of us.

  33. James "turbo" Cohen March 11, 2011 23:48 pm

    Why I’m Fighting in Wisconsin
    We can avoid mass teacher layoffs and reward our best performers. But we have to act now.

    By Scott Walker

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704132204576190260787805984.html

  34. Jay D March 12, 2011 00:58 am

    Brian, I’m pretty positive my coal-mining grandfather (and his father!) plus past (and present) uncles and cousins would disagree with you. In my family, well paid white-collar government softies (working 9-5 in air conditioned, carpeted offices) are considered whiners & sissies and not at all entitled to “claim the same history as the rest of us”.

    Regardless, most of this Wisconsin-dialogue has been philosophical, hypothetical, and ethereal debate ~ mimicking Tumpke’s confined (and purposeful) boundaries. I doubt Gov. Walker (and WI taxpayers) really give a hoot about philosophy. The devil (as usual) is in the details – as is the reasoning behind Walker’s actions and the large WI taxpayer support for this fairly radical move.

    First, the new legislation, as I understand it, is simple, straightforward and seems pretty fair (to me). Employee salaries and benefit packages remain intact, but with the following new limitations:
    - Public sector collective bargaining is now confined to wages.
    - Future pay raises are linked to the CPI – unless voters raises wages via referendum.
    - Unions are now required to hold annual votes.
    - The state no longer AUTOMATICALLY collects (takes) union dues from worker paychecks.

    Second, what (specific) union employee collectively bargained for rights were lost?

    #1 MADISON BUS DRIVERS WILL LIKELY DISAPPEAR FROM THE CITY’S “TOP 20 HIGHEST PAID CITY EMPLOYEE” LIST. In 2009, Madison’s highest paid city government employee was a bus driver earning $159,258 ~ $109,892 in overtime and other pay. In total, 7 Madison bus drivers collected paychecks of well over $100,000. It’s highly doubtful Madison intended to pay its bus drivers more than the city CEO, CFO, and Mayor. However, collectively bargained for rules allow Madison Metro’s most senior drivers – with the highest base salaries ($26/hour) – first crack at overtime. And along with budget busting driver overtime costs, Madison’s Metro pension costs also doubled that year. Why? Because (collectively bargained for) pension rules base retirement pay off an employees’ top 3 earning years. What conditions warranted such excessive overtime in ‘09? Three reasons:
    Full-time Metro union employees exhausted paid sick leave time and then used the federal Family Medical Leave Act to ‘earn’ add’l time off with pay. FMLA usage jumped 44% between 2008 and 2009 – a statistic that indicates a crazy high new birth rate or folks taking advantage of another government program.
    Full-time Metro union employees also have a historically high rate of ‘absenteeism without pay.’ (Translation: they don’t show up for work!!)
    – Union contracts (collectively bargained rights) limit part-timers to 15 percent of the number full-time drivers AND restrict part-timers from any route, other than morning and afternoon school routes. So when full-time, tenured, union-protected, full-time workers abuse sick leave, family medical act leave, and/or simply don’t show up, part time drivers are prohibited (by collectively bargained union contracts) from taking their shift
    #2 AUTOMATIC SENIORITY. If layoffs occur, collectively bargained rules give the most-senior public employees a guaranteed and automatic bump down to a lower classification– AND allow them to retain their higher classification pay/benefits package.
    #3 $6,000 PAGER BONUS. State employees that are required to carry pagers during off-duty hours (for potential emergency response situations) receive an extra (collectively bargained for) 5 hours of pay each week -–whether they are paged, or not.
    #4 TIME OFF/PAY/BENEFITS FOR UNION WORK. In Milwaukee County collectively bargained benefits include paid time off to work on union business. Taxpayers also pick up salaries/benefits cost for several full time, union-business-only, employees.
    #5 OPERATIONAL MANAGEMENT RIGHTS. City supervisors must notify union officials – AND receive union permission – to change work schedules, as per collectively bargained for union rules. County governments are also forbidden (by collectively bargained rules) from exploring privatization of functions that could save taxpayers money.
    #6 PROTECTION FROM VOLUNTEER AND INMATE LABOR. Racine County used county inmates to cut the grass in medians and right-of-ways – at no cost to the taxpayers. Unfortunately, this measure was deemed against the collectively bargained for right of government workers to cut the grass. A similar problem erupted when a retired, community volunteer acted as school crosswalk guard. Oops! Another violation of collectively bargained for worker’s rights.
    #7 FAVORABLE ARBITRATION & UNION PROTECTION FROM DISMISSAL. In Cedarburg, the collectively bargained for union arbitrator reinstated a teacher that was originally dismissed for viewing porn on a school computer. The Cedarburg school district had to fight – the teacher’s union! – all the way to the state Supreme Court (at taxpayer expense) to legally remove the porn teach.
    #8 SICK LEAVE STACKING. Collective bargaining rights allow WI corrections officers to collect 2.5 times their regular pay. Officers can call in sick for a shift (receive 8 hours of sick pay), and then work the very next shift, earning time-and-a-half for overtime.
    #9 IN THE “ALSO NEGOTIATED THRU CB” CATEGORY:
    - Right to determine size and location of the (also union required) workplace bulletin board used to post information about union social and recreational activities.
    - Right to “conditions bargaining”, which include union rules re: lighting, vision care and examinations, noise, chairs, desks, footrests, adjustable terminals & keyboards, work environment design (wall cover, carpet, windows), and room temperature.
    - Right to bargain about starting vehicles during cold weather.
    - Right to paid time off to donate blood.

    Collectively bargained for rights – specific to WI public school teachers & employees – include:

    #1 TAXPAYER FUNDED VIAGRA. The Milwaukee Teachers Education Association (MTEA) used a policy – established by collective bargaining – to obtain health insurance coverage that specifically pays for Viagra and shebang!… over 1000 of the city’s 10,000 teachers/retirees discovered they had ED! Cost to Milwaukee taxpayers: $786,000 a year. Milwaukee subsequently dropped the extra coverage; the teachers union is now suing Milwaukee for (collectively bargained for) Viagra rights.
    #2 FULL YEAR’S SALARY FOR 10 DAYS OF WORK. 1 out of every 12 teachers in Green Bay’s school district (140 teachers and 15 administrators) retired and entered the Teacher Emeritus Program this year. The (collectively bargained for) program pays a retired teacher a full year’s salary (over 3 yr. Period) in return for …10 days work. In addition to regular retirement benefits collected, Teacher Emeritus Program members receive $1,711.83/day or $213.98/hour to return to the classroom 10 days per year.
    #3 JOB SECURITY BASED ON TENURE, RATHER THAN MERIT. Milwaukee’s “Outstanding First Year Teacher” was laid off (a week after receiving the award) because (collectively bargained for) rules state any teacher layoffs are to be made based on seniority rather than merit.
    #4 GUARANTEED WEA TRUST PROVIDED HEALTH CARE INSURANCE. WEA Trust is owned and run by the WEAC (teachers union). This specific (and collectively bargained for) health plan benefits the union AND costs WI taxpayers $68 million/year MORE than the state employee health plan would cost. Under local collectively bargained for agreements, schools MUST choose WEA Trust and may not shop for worker health coverage in the private market.

    Also, FYI … In Milwaukee, the average teacher salary is $56,500; with benefits, the total package is $100,005/ year. Milwaukee teachers’ main pension plan is set by the state legislature; however local collective bargaining pushed employees’ contribution onto the taxpayers. In addition, collectively bargained deals later added a second, supplemental pension plan—again with no employee contribution. And, of course, the employees’ contribution (or lack thereof) to the cost of health insurance was also a collectively bargained for benefit. The result: Milwaukee taxpayers now pay teachers (and other public sector employees) $.742 cents in benefits for every $1 of salary. (The corresponding rate for private firm employees is 24.3 cents.)

    My question: which of these now gone, no longer collectively bargained for ‘rights’ caused WI’s capitol to fill with hysterical protesters, the masses to cry foul, and 14 democrat legislators to go into hiding?

  35. Brian W. Schoeneman March 12, 2011 07:08 am

    JayD, first of all, the vast majority of these workers are teachers, not the “9-5 cushy office jobs with AC and carpeting.” Many of the other jobs are jobs that folks do in the private sector as well – sanitation workers, bus drivers, janitors, parks workers, etc. The number of folks who sit in an office all day tend to be management, not rank and file union members.

    Let’s look at the list of things this bill did you pointed out:

    1. Public sector collective bargaining is now confined to wages: So now these workers can’t bargain over work rules, workplace safety, benefits or any of the many other things that workers in the private sector routinely bargain over. Your granddaddy his daddy in the coal mines greatly benefited from the ability to bargain over workplace safety – we’ve come a long time from the days when my granddaddy and yours went into the coal mines armed with a lunch and a canary. Losing the right to bargain there is a big deal.

    2. Future pay raises are linked to the CPI – unless voters raises wages via referendum: Do these legislators have their pay raised via referendum? Telling folks they can bargain for wages and then limiting it to a cost of living raise is like telling somebody they can order a filet mignon but they can only smell it.

    3. Unions are now required to hold annual votes – This is pure union busting. How is this going to save localities money or reduce Wisconsin’s budget deficit? All this will do is force the union to spend money holding elections – money Walker and the guys think won’t get spent on Democrats. More proof that the “reasons” given for this bill are pure pretext.

    4. The state no longer AUTOMATICALLY collects (takes) union dues from worker paychecks – People seem to think that not having dues automatically collected from paychecks is so body blow to the unions. It’s not. All that does is inconvenience both the unions and their members. Instead of an automatic dues check off, the shop steward is going to have to go around every pay day and get paper checks or cash from people. It doesn’t mean that people will have the choice in whether to pay their dues or not. They will still be obligated to pay their dues. Now, however, the state has made it harder to collect them and interjected a possibility of corruption into the process that automatic dues payments were designed to curb in the first place. And this won’t save anyone a penny.

    In my opinion, there is no such thing as a “collectively bargained for right.” All those 25 things you listed were contract provisions, not rights. They can be changed in the next contract. We’re not talking about that.

    The right to collectively bargain is what is causing people to riot. To tell people that their elected representatives aren’t allowed to do their jobs and that they won’t have the ability to have any influence on the most important parts of their employment experience is what gets people angry.

  36. William Bailey March 12, 2011 07:11 am

    I can understand your frustration with the union and the employees and their “rights and benefits” but where is your frustration at the employer? After all in negociations, it take two sides and agreement to put the first right and benefit in place. Nobody held a gun to the employers head… They agreed to these items.

    You focus on the big bad union and its employees, but that leaves 50% of the story untold and the employers get a free pass.. Wrong on every level.

  37. James "turbo" Cohen March 12, 2011 11:47 am

    People who voted for Walker voted for change, realistic budgets and an end to frivolous spending and cowards don’t like it. Seems that change is for the unwashed masses except for socialists and public employee unions.

    http://www.thewheelerreport.com/releases/March11/0310/0310wppa.pdf

    “Pity if anything were to happen to it if, say, you didn’t toe the line and denounce Governor Walker like we’re asking nice-like.” Things have been tough for Willy The Torch lately ey Mr.Soprano?

    Can’t make this stuff up.

  38. Jay D March 12, 2011 16:36 pm

    Brian, ALL American workers (public & private) benefit from the legacy of the truly brave & desperate men/women that fought labor battles – when the struggle actually shed blood and risk of starvation for on-strike families was real. How ‘bout you and I agree – to disagree – on modern, public government union’s entitlement to don that historical mantle? Sorry – just old school thinking (that extraordinary titles should be reserved for those that do extraordinary things), I guess! :)

    Back to your list:
    1) “… work rules, workplace safety, benefits or any of the many other things that workers in the private sector routinely bargain over.” Between federal OSHA, EEOC, Fair Labor Standards Act, and all the other federal worker protection acts (http://www.dol.gov/opa/aboutdol/lawsprog.htm) PLUS Wisconsin’s state worker protections (e.g. state’s mandatory overtime law applicable to state/local government employees, factory, mercantile, mechanical, restaurants, hotels, motels, resorts, beauty parlors, retail and wholesale stores, laundries, express and transportation firms, telegraph offices and telephone exchanges) …. WI workers already possess workplace safety and rule protections. And for the most part, unless one offers special experience or high-demand (low-supply) skills, most private-sector job ‘negotiations’ are typically: “Here’s our package, would you like the position?”

    2) Pay raises linked to CPI – Isn’t this the norm for government-paid civil service employees and also the standard pay process for all US military active-duty (and retired) personal?

    3) Annual votes – Brian, I seriously doubt it’s the oppressive cost that’s the real concern; more likely that workers now get to make annual decisions whether/not they choose union representation???

    4) Union dues – you have GOT to check out the really cool modern invention called ‘automatic withdrawal’!!! Why should state treasuries shoulder public (or private) union accounting costs?

    Brian, always enjoy your writings, but in this instance I remain unconvinced by the philosophical “collective bargaining rights” argument. Unfortunately (for unions) as taxpayers begin to review the details of how unions have implemented this precious right … well, we have about as much sympathy for their current discomfort as we do for Charlie Sheen! IMO, unions (not Walker) overreached – and morphed from worker-rights protection to outright plunder, exploitation, and taxpayer gouging. The teacher’s union, in particular, deserves special scorn for its unified obstruction movement towards education reform. Thankfully, real education and child advocates – like former DC school superintendent Michelle Rhee (http://www.studentsfirst.org/) – are stepping forward to help parents battle entrenched teacher’s unions.

    To William’s point … any person or entity (including unions) that games the system deserves contempt. And if I had my way, local, state, and federal legislators that sell off public treasure for votes, influence, and political gain would serve jail time for corruption.

    Rather than spending an entire term renegotiating with each local, regional, and statewide union, Walker, in one swift majority-vote, hit the restart button. Sure, some benefits can (and likely will) be reinstated later, by subsequent Governors and legislators. But new deals/agreements will be done in daylight, with taxpayer rights groups paying very close attention. Pretty awesome, Wisconsin!
    __________
    P.S.~ None of the above is directed at the overwhelming majority of union workers that have as much power to shape union policy as I do w/ GOP policy & agenda – one vote!

  39. James Young March 12, 2011 17:02 pm

    I accept your apology, even if I fail to understand how you could put a phrase similar to mine in quotation marks, and substitute “unions” for “Republicans.”

    And I have no doubt that union leaders frequently make the best of political realities by employing self-styled Republicans and conservatives to get the best deal possible. As for those so employed, I recall Lenin’s observation: “When the time comes to hang Capitalism, I will find a Capitalist to sell me the rope.”

    “I don’t like seeing dues money go to politics at all, and I’ve never worked for a union that spent dues money on politics. Both unions I’ve worked for have had voluntary political action committees and that’s where their cash came from. Not every union is the same.”

    Oh, Brian, c’mon! You are well aware of the fact that MOST unions are NOT the same. Moreover, “politics” is a very slippery word. What about lobbying?

    “But I do think unions – as the representatives of the workers who have so selected them – deserve a place at the table.” I agree. But ONLY “as the representatives of the workers who have so selected them”; not for those who have refused to designate employees who don’t want union representation. And ONLY the same “seat at the table” possessed by any other citizen or group of citizens.

    “That’s all these guys are asking for.” No, it’s not. They are demanding a monopoly on representation, not merely “as the representatives of the workers who have so selected them.” You are or should be well aware of the way virtually every bargaining statute in the United States — Europe generally differs — works: an election is held, and a union is certified as the representative of ALL employees in a designated “bargaining unit,” including those who don’t want union representation.

    They are also demanding a statutorily-PREFERRED seat at the table, one not possessed by other citizens or group of citizens. That’s what collective/monopoly bargaining statutes give them: a preferred seat at the table, and a process not possessed by ordinary citizens and taxpayers.

    And, once again, THEY’RE NOT “RIGHTS”!!! The Supreme Court has plainly held that there is no Federal constitutional “right” to monopoly bargaining (unions use the euphemism “collective bargaining,” but “collective” bargaining does not require the monopoly enjoyed by most private- and public-sector unions in the United States). Smith v. Arkansas State Highway Emp., Local 1315, 441 U.S. 463, 465 & n.2 (1979) (“the First Amendment does not impose any affirmative obligation on the government to listen, to respond or, in this context, to recognize the association and bargain with it”) (per curiam). Precedent in the Seventh Circuit to the same effect was relied upon and cited with approval in Smith. Hanover Township Federation of Teachers v. Hanover Community School Corp., 457 F.2d 456, 461 (7th Cir. 1972), quoting Indianapolis Education Assn. v. Lewallen, 72 LRRM 2071, 2072 (7th Cir. 1969) (“‘there is no constitutional duty to bargain collectively with an exclusive bargaining agent’”).

    What has been done in Wisconsin is that labor unions have lost their special PRIVILEGES. It’s no more complicated than that. And it explains virtually ALL of the bleating.

  40. Brian Schoeneman March 12, 2011 17:16 pm

    Self-styled Republicans, James? I was a registered Republican when I lived in Pennsylvania. Ive been a member of the Fairfax Republican committee for four years since I moved here. I’ve personally donated hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars to Republican candidates – look it up on FEC.gov and VPAP. I write on two conservative blogs. I helped, either thorugh volunteering or pro-Bono consulting for Republican candidates in that last three elections, from McCain to McDonnell. I’ve been a delegate to then last two RPV conventions. And I served as a political appointee in a Republican presidential administration. What more do I need to do in order to prove I’m Republican? Get a tattoo of Reagan on my bicep?

    They are rights. Unless you are claiming that the only thing that protects rights in this country is the Federal Constituion – and I think the good Lord wouldn’t appreciate it if that is actually what you are claiming – the fact that the Supreme Court didn’t find a federal constitutional right in collective bargaining doesn’t mean that the state legislatures can’t grant it.

    Did we not in Virginia protect our citizens rights to not be forced by mandate to purchase health insurance? Is that not a right now? If so, you may want to tell Bob Marshall that.

    Regardless of what you choose to call it – especially since you are fond of replacing terms of law with your own made up synonyms – these folks in Wisconsin have had those privileges for over half a century. They’ve relied on them and now they don’t have them. If you can’t understand why that might upset somebody, you’re not thinking hard enough.

  41. James Young March 13, 2011 14:56 pm

    Brian, like every Lefty I know, you understand the importance of controlling the terms of the debate … and piously defend your euphemisms (“collective bargaining” in place of the more accurate “monopoly bargaining”) while attacking the more accurate term.

    And I appreciate your sterling GOP credentials, even if I wasn’t necessarily referring to you (former Chief of Staff to Labor Secretary Elaine Chao and now-union lobbyist Andrew Siff was actually whom I had in mind). It is, however, highly doubtful that registration as a Republican in Pennsylvania is all that impressive, since it is an honor you share (or shared) with Arlen Specter. For that reason, I barely ever mention the fact that I registered as such in Northumberland, Pennsylvania, from the time I first registered (in 1981, probably about the year you were born) on my political “resume.” And congratulations on serving as a delegate to two Virginia GOP conventions! You’ve now done so at two-thirds as many as I have served on Convention committees (Rules; Credentials; Resolutions), and about a quarter as many as I have attended. Likewise your service on the Fairfax County GOP Committee; you’ve now been a member for about one-fifth the time I’ve been on the Prince William GOP Committee, and nearly as long as I served on its Executive Committee, having served as primary author of its by-laws.

    Isn’t comparing political resumes fun? And no Reagan tattoo will be necessary. You probably don’t want to emulate Roger Stone (Nixon tattoo) in any meaningful way, and I subscribe to the Charles Emerson Winchester school on tattoos: I fail to understand why people put art on their bodies that they wouldn’t hang on their walls.

    I am equally amused by your stirring defense of natural (i.e., God-given) rights and easy, almost indiscernible shift into legislatively-granted “rights,” which I more accurately refer to as “powers.” “Rights” exist independent of government. Hence, Wisconsin public employees still have all of the “rights” they had a week ago: they can petition government; they can assemble peacably; they can speak; etc.

    What has happened is that their union LEADERS have simply lost some of their power: their monopoly bargaining power over anything but wages; their demand for a process (again, over anything but wages) which gives them a preferred status in the debate over scarce public resources.

    What you fail to admit or understand is that “rights,” rightly understood, are not subject to enlargement or diminution by government or mere legislative act. I suspect it’s too late to take a jurisprudence or political theory class in law school, but you might find one useful.

    You ask whether “we … in Virginia protect our citizens rights to not be forced by mandate to purchase health insurance?” Yes, a statute to that effect was enacted, to give our Attorney General legal standing in challenging the mandate. If a “right,” under “natural right” theory, of course, it merely memorializes a pre-existing right; it did not, and could not, create a new one. And I seriously doubt that I need to “tell Bob Marshall” anything; as a friend of two-decades’ standing (I worked on his first campaign, and was County Young Republican Chairman for his second, his last real challenge), I know that he has more than a fair understanding of natural-rights theory.

  42. Brian W. Schoeneman March 13, 2011 20:57 pm

    James, no one questioned your credentials. You questioned mine. And you still do, by calling me a “lefty.” I know you think that gets under my skin, so you keep bringing it up. It doesn’t. I’m used to it. You forgot to remind me that you’ve argued before the Supreme Court, by the way.

    It’s ironic that you accuse me of being euphemistic when you are the one using euphemisms to characterize your opinion of terms defined in statute. Collective bargaining is a legal term. It is used in statute. When 29 U.S.C. Sec. 157 outlines the “rights” of employees, it says “bargain collectively.”

    Monopoly bargaining is your club house speak for that legal term. Pardon me if I stick with the universally accepted term for what we’re talking about that people generally understand. You can use your pet terms all you want, but that doesn’t prove anything.

    Getting back to the statute, you’ll notice that Congress itself used the term “rights” in the NLRA when they wrote Section 157. That’s why people refer to collective bargaining as a right. I think it’s interesting that you refer to rights protected by the First Amendment as rights that exist independent of government, and then cite a right – the right to petition government – that cannot exist without government itself.

    Rights and powers are different. You know that. And you also recognize that the state can confer rights on people that don’t exist in nature, like the right to petition government, or the right to a trial by jury – rights that wouldn’t exist outside of government because they require a government to even be necessary. Does the right to contract exist without a government to enforce the right? Ask Bob Marshall that, since he referred to the “right to contract” in the Health Care Freedom law. Maybe you should tell him to call it a power instead.

    Natural rights, like life, liberty and property, exist and are protected by things like the Constitutions of the United States and Virginia. Some of the things in the bills of rights wouldn’t exist without a western style form of government, but they are also protected because they preexisted before those documents. And then there are all kinds of other rights – like the right to bargain collectively – that are legislatively made. They are still rights, even though they can be taken away. Just like the Bill of Rights.

    You’ve only got another 74 days to bring up law school – get in as many references as you can.

  43. Kathy Mateer March 13, 2011 22:33 pm

    Don’t let JY and JJ get under your skin Brian. Just laugh and see them for the kids they are. Don’t feel you have to defend yourself with their antics, we all see right through them and see you too. You have a great heart Brian, we all see it!

  44. John Jackson March 13, 2011 23:22 pm

    Kathy, Huh? Are you serious? As for myself…I was poking fun and its a shame you missed it.

  45. Brian W. Schoeneman March 14, 2011 00:13 am

    JJ is kidding. JY is usually kidding too. Regardless, one of the benefits of being a RINO is we have thick skin.

  46. James Young March 14, 2011 14:53 pm

    You know, Brian, I didn’t question your credentials, and I didn’t call you a “Lefty,” either. If you’d read closely what I wrote, you might realize that. However, if what you do and say so closely resembles what Lefties and “so-called Republicans” do and say that you feel that it was directed at you and you have to defend yourself, then perhaps it is what you do and say which are questionable.

    And you’re right about what the NLRA says about conferring “rights.” That legislators in 1930 were no more disciplined in their use of the language than protesters in Wisconsin does not reflect well on the former. But you’ll note that “By its plain terms, thus, the NLRA confers rights only on employees, not on unions ….” Lechmere v. NLRB, 502 U.S. 527, 532 (1992) (Thomas, J.).

    It’s also a “monopoly,” as you should know (and which you don’t actually deny), because Congress had to write (in the Clayton Act) a special exemption to preexisting anti-monopoly legislation to get away with the monopolies that they were authorizing for labor unions. 15 U.S.C. s. 17. Either admit the point and move on, or deny it and justify your denial. But if you want to have a meaningful discussion, and demonstrate true understanding of the subject matter, you probably might want to avoid belittling adjectives like “club house” and “pet terms” for groups and arguments you can’t answer, and grandiose claims like “universally accepted” (kinda like global warming, huh?).

    And as for what I said “doesn’t prove anything,” I’ve justified in detail and with legal authority what I’ve said. And you can’t dismiss it simply because you happen to prefer more-broadly used euphemisms, unless you simply with to deny existing tensions and realities of how we arrived at the current state of the law.

    And is “club house” how you belittle the substantial part of the Conservative movement which is the Right to Work organizations?

    Perhaps I didn’t question your Republican and Conservative credentials before. But I have every reason to do so now.

  47. Brian W. Schoeneman March 14, 2011 15:32 pm

    James, you’re in a conversation with me – you’re responding to points I’m making. I think anybody who read what you wrote caught the insinuations. If you weren’t insinuating, you should be more precise in what you’re writing. And since you pretty much just did what I accused you of, there you go.

    I’m not denying that in collective bargaining situations the unions are the exclusive representatives of the workers in those areas. They are. And if the workers don’t like their union, they can file to decertify and get a new one, or none at all. I don’t use your characterization because that characterization is your choice of language (and one I think is unclear) – it is not the choice used by the legislators who wrote the language, by the NLRB, by most practitioners and be pretty much every union out there. You are the only person I’ve ever heard refuse to say “collective bargaining” and instead call it “monopoly bargaining.”

    In fact, a quick google search shows me that pretty much only National Right to Work and folks you’re allied with use the phrase. A google search shows 1.8 million hits of the phrase (many of which appear to be catching on to monopoly, rather than the phrase monopoly bargaining.) A google search of “collective bargaining” shows 15.5 million results, all of which on the first few pages are of the word.

    Collective bargaining is in Black’s Law Dictionary. Monopoly bargaining is not. The definition doesn’t even say “also called ‘Monopoly bargaining.’”

    On one hand, we have a term of law, defined in statute, referenced in about a zillion court cases, defined in a legal dictionary and almost in universal use versus your term which, outside of the folks you work for, no one uses.

    Which one is a euphemism? Come on.

    It’s a liberal trick to try and redefine the English language in some kind of politically correct way – here, the political correctness is to justify your dislike of collective bargaining. I think that’s just as bad as saying short people are “vertically challenged.” You’re trying to reinvent a phrase to fit your political agenda.

    And I’m the lefty?

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