Taylor campaign responds to “dupli-gate”
By JR Hoeft | Thursday, March 25th, 2010 | Politics(Ed note: Yea. I just came up with that cheesy name for this “scandal”. Sue me.)
Scott Taylor, candidate for the GOP nomination in the 2nd Congressional District, responded through his campaign manager to the controversy associated with his joint statement with Ben Loyola over the “Contract on Congress.”
The Rigell campaign has accused Taylor and Loyola of plagiarism.
“Scott Taylor worked with Ben Loyola to craft our joint congressional reforms: the “Contract on Congress”; but that statement is certainly not the first time those reforms appeared. If you look back at our past press releases and the “Freshman 50″, these reforms have formed much of the basis of our campaign,” said Scott Weldon, Taylor’s campaign manager. “Our goal has always been to elevate the tone of this campaign and create commonsense proposals that will resonate with the people of the 2nd District. Bringing the campaign to this new low is unnecessary when people are losing their jobs and government continues to intrude into their lives.”
Regarding the coincidence of each reform matching Rigell’s reforms in the same order, Weldon replied, “Until Bearing Drift posted it, I had not previously seen Rigell’s message. So, I cannot comment on the order.”
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Conservative to the core; liberal with his opinion! J.R. has been involved in politics for over a decade and has worked on several campaigns in Hampton Roads. He has served on the Executive Committee of the Republican Party of Chesapeake and the Central Committee of the Republican Party of Virginia. He is also the director of “Blogs United” in Virginia. E-mail J.R.. Follow J.R. on Twitter.
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99 Responses to "Taylor campaign responds to “dupli-gate”"
That’s it? No explanation of the similarities, the same order, the same wording, etc.? I for one would like to look back at the past press releases if that’s what the campaign is claiming as their evidence. I find it hard to believe that they sat down together and dreamed this up without taking notes, writing things down, sending emails back and forth, etc. What do they have to show for all of this diligent work that went into their “contract?”
“Our goal [which we took from somewhere else] has always been to elevate the tone of this campaign and create commonsense proposals [that we copied from another candidate or the Freshman 50 without giving credit] that will resonate with the people of the 2nd District [hey, Tim J's a believer, why not right]. Bringing the campaign to this new low [because lying about endorsements, stealing people's screen names, whining about losing a political analyst, and always blaming everything on lack of money isn't low]is unnecessary when people are losing their jobs [which we don't really mind because then they comment on here for us] and government continues to intrude into their lives.”
Stealing people’s screen names? These kool aid drinking Rigell supporters need to lay down the sauce. How can you get behind a man that is a liberal supporter, wanted to raise taxes, and donated 10k to the Yes Campaign? I just don’t understand it. And screen names….oh screen names. Rigell’s people have been sending out nasty videos, one of which my 8 year old son saw. His supporters have threatened my family, and continue to do so. Regardless of what happens here on out, Rigell will not get the Conservative vote in VA02. You have to be a Conservative to do that, not a backroom dealing carsalesman. that’s the last thing we need in Congress. nice try team rigell. Maybe run as a democrat.
There are too many wanna be’s in this race. Only two guys I’ve seen try to keep it sane are Kenny Golden and Scott Rigell. I may not be a Rigell supporter but heck he managed to get the endorsement of two competitors in his race, at least they thing enough of his idea’s to rip him off, and at least he’s a Ford dealer.
That being said. Vote for Kenny Golden he’s been preparing for this office his whole life. Apparently Scott Rigell wasn’t running as of a year ago (according to other posts on BD) but Kenny has spend a lifetime serving our country. Experience matters!
WOW: There joint statement defies all logic and is absurd and has more holes then a Green Bay Packer lineman.
LET ME REMIND THEM OF THE FOLLOWING: “Well, in talking with both the Rigell and Loyola campaigns, I asked Loyola campaign manager Josh Clark to produce documentation of the research and work product that went into coordinating their joint nine step plan. He could not.”
From JR Hoeft’s original Post.
So, 24 hours ago the Loyola campaign could NOT produce documentation of the research and work product in coordinating their joint nine step plan. Now they release a joint statement.
FURTHERMORE: The Freshmen “50″ is a fair tax group, and there reforms are NOT the same ones they put out on 3/22. Which begs the question, if these are reforms or a group they are part of, why did at least 4 of the BELOW reforms from teh “Freshmen 50″ not make their list?
The Taylor and Loyola campaign are insulting the voters of the 2nd District.
The Freshmen 50 are a Fair Tax group, and these are there proposals:
Platform
1. Apply the Law Equally: All laws that apply to all citizens also apply to Congress.
2. Limit Terms in Office: Amend the Constitution to limit Congressmen and Senators to no more than 12 years, respectively.
3. Enforce Congressional Ethics
a. Mandatory, yearly tax and expense audits of every member to be made fully available to the general public each Oct 1, until the federal tax code is reformed (see item #5)
b. No member of Congress, or Congressional staff member, can ever be hired as a lobbyist, paid or otherwise, to Congress
c. Unleash the ethics committee: require only 50% of an ethics committee to approve an investigation
4. Read the Bill: Prior to final vote, the bill to be voted upon must be read out loud, by one or more of its sponsors, in its entirety, on the floor of the House. Should amendments be required, they must also be read in the same manner. A member may not vote on the bill unless he or she was present for the entire reading, including applicable amendments.
5. Reform the Federal Tax Code: Repeal the 16th Amendment and replace the current federal tax code with a clear, simple, and fair tax code which includes the following principles:
a. Tax only once
b. Tax at one rate
c. A Constitutional amendment requiring a two-thirds majority for any new tax or tax hike
6. Balance the Budget: Amend the Constitution to require a balanced budget, unless sanctioned by a three-fifths majority in each house of Congress.
Taylor’s camp has basically admitted that they copied Rigell’s document. There is no other way to read that statement. The omissions are so much more glaring than what was stated. They are trying to sweep this under the rug, and it won’t work.
First of all, of course Taylor and Loyola worked together to form their document. They simply neglected to mention that they were just changing the language and a few minor points in Rigell’s document and calling it their own. It is simply hilarious that they didn’t even change the numbering, something that a small child could have done to try to hide stealing work that belonged to someone else.
Second, this is not the response of an innocent campaign. A campaign with nothing to hide could show an impartial third party (like Bearing Drift) the origination of their document and the subsequent drafts, correspondence between the Taylor and Loyola’s campaigns discussing the reforms, etc. Do they really expect us to believe that Taylor and Loyola sat down with a blank piece of paper, wrote out 9 reforms, and what resulted just happened to be the same as what Rigell can prove he’s written and been working on for a while? Idiots. Nobody is that gullible.
They should both man up and come clean. They were apparently afraid that Rigell was going to one-up them (and they were right to be worried), so they decided to try to beat him in getting it out to the public. They didn’t have time to come up with their own reforms before Rigell was planning to announce. Unfortunately, they didn’t realize that people aren’t stupid. Clearly, neither man is capable of representing the Second District. They could – and should – finally show some honor by withdrawing from the race.
Lacee, talk about kool aid. Just because you and your husband bought into Taylor’s lies don’t complain to us. Oh wait, your husband’s paid by Taylor. Do you have any evidence of these claims you make against the other campaign? Or were they thought up of at a table and never written down? If there is one thing your campaign is consistent on it’s blame, blame, blame, blame, blame…
Lee, if I were to agree with supporting any of the candidates it would be Golden. The other blog on here claims he didn’t receive his signatures though. Is that true?
P.S. Taylor’s response requires the suspension of belief, kind of like the Biblical story about the golden calf. In the Bible, Aaron made excuses to Moses by claiming that he put gold into the fire and it came out in the shape of a golden calf. Taylor and Loyola said that they sat down to write out their reforms and out came a document that is virtually identical to Rigell’s. Too bad that didn’t work back in Aaron’s day, and it doesn’t work now.
Is it possible the “reforms” may have been “floating” around for a while? Still, to claim complete ownership when they are so similar. Sad. The stealing of blog names this week was infantile, but that sorta kinda can be excused by having people very young and immature working as volunteers with no supervision. They probably thought it was funny. But the almost identical lists is no laughing matter.
Really??
I haven’t heard anything on his signatures. As far as I know he’s good to go.
Why are two competitors for the same seat working together on ideas for their individual platforms? It doesn’t make sense.
Why is only one reform idea similar to the Feshman 50? It doesn’t make sense.
Why would they not join the Freshman 50 and advocate all the reforms of the Freshman 50 if they are now claiming allegiance to the Freshman 50? It doesn’t make sense.
Why are there no working documents or corroberating emails of correspondance between Taylor and Loyola pertaining to the reforms? It doesn’t make sense.
Why is Kenny Golden not stepping up and condemning “dupligate” when he himself was approached by the Taylor campaign to join the Taylor-Loyola reform movement? It doesn’t make sense.
Just an fyi: the petitions are not due until April, so any candidate who has not already turned them in still has plenty of time.
Intellectual property? Seriously? Are these ideas original by any of these guys? Plagarism? stop crying.
I watched this unfold all day and have only one comment – if Loyola and Taylor “plagarised” then so did Rigell – because not a single one of these is a new issue or idea. Shall we get Jim DeMint on the phone to discuss Rigell’s plagarism of his Congressional term limits legislation proposed several months ago? Or how about several other members of Congress for the legislation they proposed that would force Congress to show how each statute they pass is Constitutional? How many countless candidates and already elected members have proposed and run on earmark reform? Some my say, well their suggestions are too similar – really, how many different ways do you know of to propose term limits? All that ever changes are the number of years. I could go on, but I think I have made my point.
While the bullet point ideas may not all be ‘original’ the content contained beneath the bullet points is. Purely coincidental that on not one but nine individual points, all of which are numerically identical, that contain nearly identical talking points as well? There’s a number of ways the Rigell camp can go about this, and not one of them will they look wrong. The Taylor campaign looks horrific, plus their Twitter team has made them look even more so. Loyola is the only one so far who hasn’t spoken, and with no statement it’s more guilt by association. I don’t think anyone besides Taylor supporters believe the statement. Let’s hear from the Loyola campaign.
stop crying
Interesting that if you search Taylor on twitter there are a bunch of made up profiles attacking him, just like on Facebook. Same petty tactics. stop crying.
I would agree that the talking points are original, and shouldn’t be copied. Problem for Rigell, his weren’t, Taylor/Loyola’s are much MORE conservative than his- but nobody noticed that. Like I said, how many ways are there to talk about term limits, no earmarks, balanced budgets and the like? I bet you looked, Rigell’s talking points look an aweful lot like the legislation I mentioned above and the platforms of half the people running for Congress this year.
govgirl-
if you wrote an essay on Reagan for an economics course you and I would use many of the same facts to support our essay. If you wrote something and then I copied it and only changed a few words then I would have plagiarized your work.
It’s that simple.
I find “jared” quite humorous…
Govgirl-
the difference is leadership. You say how many ways are there to talk about the same points? Good question.
How about asking how do you get it done? That is what Rigell asked. He outlined the proposals and got nearly 20 GOP candidates to sign on to make it a movement across the country. LEADERSHIP is how you enact these reforms. Rigell was doing just that until he was undermined by this dishonorable and cheap political trick.
I ask you all: do you want leadership or dirty tricks?
Ok – I edited my last comment, but it did not take – it should say “talking points” in the first sentence – just to clarify.
An attorney just pointed out to me on the phone that there is a possibility that 19.2-62 of the Virginia Code could have been violated (dealing with interception of electronic or telecommunication).
Bryan R-
What does that mean?
That clause is for intercepting communications with a device. stop crying
This is like watching a nascar race in slow motion. Watched a few of them over the years and briefly worked for a few successful engine builders long ago.
This lap with friends Loyola and Scott is like watching one car rub the other then the other one bumps them back.. the friends gentle tap sends one of them grazing the wall.. underlying damage becomes evident when another lap down, smoke starts to trail.. deep in a corner the oversteer becomes unstable and the driver overcorrects.. what ensues is spin control.. the caution flag waves, cars slow down, drivers look over the carnage and then the drivers each on their way to a win size up the next opportunity to keep their landing gear in working order, clear of the careless and unexperienced drivers ed moments in front of the grand stands.
Predicting the last mile will be tough but Golden and Rigell are the mature drivers.. one of them will see the checkered flag. This is getting interesting. Piloting skills may come into play.
Jared-
What bothers you?
Ethics violations?
Theft?
Lying?
Misrepresentation?
I got that you don’t like crying….what do you not like in your politicians? You see I don’t like unethical actions against fellow republicans. I’m pretty sure more people agree with me than the “stop crying” crowd out there.
And if this was a criminal act would that be your defense to the judge. “Your honor-stop crying.”
You’re right Bryan R-he is funny.
Bryan R… an attorney up at 10:57 at night and giving legal advice? Youse guys are partying a little too hearty and quit taking such deep tokes on the fattie being passed around the circle of your attorney friends.
Richard, are you in the same party with Brian R??
Tim J-
What could be more fun than this?
I’ve missed your usual conspiracy theories. You got nothing to entertain us with tonight. What do you think?
The saddest part about today is that the “dupli-gate” defenders posting here coupled with candidates Loyola and Taylor don’t understand how many people have been let down by this. It truly disappoints me.
Countless republicans have lost respect for two men I once considered honorable, decent men. Men that I would have backed 100% if they had won the primary. That’s gone.
I’ve talked to a lot of party regulars today. The word I’ve herad most is shocking and disappointing. I have to agree.
You bomb throwers. You won’t change and obviously you don’t care about the larger picture. It’s all about you, your race, and your guy. For the majority of us-it’s about much more.
Being a republican is a personal philosophy and a code of honor maintained by ethics that we proudly hold. That has been eroded today.
Sadly Ben and Scott have lost more than they ever could have imagined. One day they’ll understand how big a mistake this was. I’ll leave just one more qoute:
“Integrity is like holding water in your cupped hands. Let your fingers slip for a moment and it is gone forever.” A Man for All Seasons, written by Robert Bolt.
Good night everybody. I hope tomorrow is a better day.
Richard, looked back at “Contract with America”, which coincidentally was launched six weeks before the Congressional Election in 1994. Then browsed through the Cato Institute, Heritage Foundation, Beck, Mark Levin, Limbaugh, Ron Paul, Republican National Committee, Sarah Palin’s Facebook page, John McCain’s presidential campaign talking points and found that everybody plagiarizes from everybody, and in many cases, directly.
These sites are like a buffet menu of Republican talking points, there are no original thoughts and it doesn’t take a genius to string them together both in sequence and in words which in many cases were lifted directly from speeches given by Ronald Reagan.
One of the things I noticed was the legislation (Acts) proposed in Rigell’s version which was the same wording and format as the Contract with America. Whoever was first or last, it was all borrowed, copied or recycled from multiple sources.
As JR mentioned, they are both great collections of principles which all candidates should pledge to and as far as I am concerned, you can get crazy about this stuff or start worrying that Glenn Nye was given another “No” vote by Pelosi on the reconciliation package tonight, which passed.
God help us and our country as we are pushed kicking and screaming into a country most of us don’t want, and one that all of us thought we would never see.
Well Gov Girl, it looks to me like Taylor, Loyola and Rigell took all the same talking points going around for awhile and made a statement. It’s just that Taylor and Loyola beat Rigell to the punch. That’s why my first question was “Is it possible the “reforms” may have been “floating” around for a while?” My question is the same as Richard’s though, why would two contenders for the same race tag team with each other? Maybe it’s because this was already going around for a consensus in the Republican party? Loyola and his wife are very nice but I don’t know him personally and have not spoken to him except for at a dinner once. I believe with all my heart Scott Taylor to be honorable. He needs more mature volunteers though.
I am glad Kenny Golden is not a part of this.
Lee, Turbo, thanks for your very kind comments. I have in fact been blessed by simply taking the orders I was given and never refusing. That has been the same in the Republican Party. On the petitions, one of my workers got sick so we haven’t completed the 1500 I have mandated. We should be through by Tues of the coming week.
Richard, having worked with me on numerous occasions I’m surprised you would attack me for staying out of this fiasco, a fiasco created by folks trying to upstage each other. If you’ll notice I have done extremely well in all the forums/debates and yet you have never and will never see my campaign comment on win or losses by any candidates. This business requires no comment from me but rather I can and will stay out of this. I will however give you the same explanation I gave to Scott Rigell and Jim Hoeft today, and to Ben Loyola when he asked me to participate and I declined, “Upstaging each other in campaigns is not necessary, substance is.” I never saw the “offer” of Ben and Scott until I read Jim’s version of it today and I accept Jim’s piece as being factual. When Scott Rigell and I talked today he was very concerned about almost the similarity between his website and the Ben and Scott offering. If in fact it is a case of plagirism, it is a very serious breach of campaigns ethics. I expect Scott (Rigell)will use Jason’s extensive background in the law to ferret all this out and I’ll wait for the result. I can tell you two more things, I told Ben this was a bad idea and Scott Rigell told me today he believes this is a slam dunk based on the evidence. We’ll see.
There is a great deal of advantage in being slightly older and more experienced in all this. It is also an advantage in the long run to keep a classy campaign classy and never whine. I intend to keep my campaign in that category, I could never do it any other way.
Kenny, you have won me.
great comment, Mr. Golden. you’ve just gained a lot of respect in my book.
Kenny, you are an Officer and a Gentleman. Cheers!
Kenny, in your discussions with Rigell, Taylor and Loyola was there any discussion of who “stole” or received what from who? JR posted that there were other candidates who were invited and were going to participate in the event on 23 March who knew, along with the NRCC about the “dupligate” document.
We also checked and your schedule put you in DC on Tuesday. Did you turn down Loyola since you were going to be part of the Lincoln Memorial “Big Idea” event with Rigell?
KUDOS TO KENNY GOLDEN! Thank you for responding.
Good Job Kenny. Great to see candidates blog not to tear down each other but to use something like this to explain their values and ideas directly to the people.
My husband paid by Taylor? That would be nice, but it’s not happening. Not sure where you got that. Feel free to ask him for your self. I’ll give you his number.
Also, this conversation is a total waste of time. How can anyone get behind some suit that has to read his passionate reform from script? So who penned Rigell’s? Not him. These are the same talking points that most everyone in the Republican Party have been working on. So, Loyola/Taylor came out with theirs first. Big deal. I do support Taylor, but most important, I support us taking back Congress in November. This is a political race. A battle. Rigell can’t handle the heat and whines in a primary. He’d get crushed by Nye and the DNC. The worst case scenario is that he does make it to Congress, then we’re doomed in VA02. I’ve rallied support around the country to make sure he never gets there. I hope that Taylor wins, but what I do know is that Rigell will NOT get the Conservative vote. You can’t say that you have strong Conservative conviction when it’s good for your campaign. It has to be something you actually live by, not just when you’re running for Congress. We need to move on past Rigell and rally around a Candidate that can lead in Congress. We all want that seat back in November, right?
The statistical probability of 9 Reforms matching the 9 Rigell Reforms, IN THE SAME EXACT ORDER defies all logic.
I guess imitation is the greatest source of flattery, but Taylor and Loyola are now followers of Rigell. They couldn’t even come up with ONE SINGLE reform on their own to make it an even 10!!!
They claim they got their reforms from the “Freshmen 50″; the only one on the list of 9 is term limits.
The Freshmen 50 Reforms deal with repealing the 16th Amendment, Rigell’s did not.
The Freshmen 50 Reforms deal with the Fair Tax, Rigell’s did not.
The Freshmen 50 Reforms dealt with the Balanced Budget Amendment, Rigell’s did not.
If there were the “reforms” that Taylor and based his campaign on, then WHY WERE THESE NOT IN THE PRESS RELEASE HE SENT OUT ON MARCH 22nd?????
WHY HAS LOYOLA NOT RESPONDED??? Other than Loyola’s Campaign Manager stating that he could not provide work product for his work, he has been silent.
This makes me sick as a Republican and activist; our Party should be better than this.
In my line of work, I have the opportunity to sit down with candidates from all over the country who are running for the US House and Senate. I was fortunate to sit down with Rigell earlier this month.
Whether you’ll believe me or not, Rigell was one of the most impressive candidates so far this cycle. Unlike other candidates who stick to their talking points and game plan, Rigell actually surprised me. He spoke a lot about leadership.
While I haven’t met with the other candidates, I have done my research on them. It’s my opinion that Rigell is the most qualified. His business experience is most impressive and unparalleled in this current field. You can argue against that, I would find it hard to do so when looking at the facts. No other candidate has created hundreds of jobs within the community. Rigell is part of a growing number of business men running for Congress and I am pleased to see that trend.
Congress needs some successful businessmen who know who to budget, make a payroll, create jobs and lead.
For those of you who harp on this one contribution to Obama, I would suggest you move past this. If you can’t then you really do not know how politics works. People make contributions all the time and in the world of politics this means access. When you’re in the line of work that Rigell is in and your facing an administration critical of your industry, you need to do everything you can to ensure the survival of your business. Also of note, its $1,000. Doesn’t the hundreds of thousands he’s contributed to GOP candidates make up for it? If not, get over it.
Lastly, Rigell is the perfect candidate to represent ALL of the voters in VA-2. The district would be well served to elect this gentleman.
To bitch about this is stupid. Scott and Rigell are both running as conservatives. Fact is, they are both going to sound alike on a lot of platforms. This would be like complaining that another republican is simply copying you for being against abortion.
If he copied the language, so what? It’s politics. One up Scott Taylor then Rigell, don’t act like Obama and complain and whine. Oh boo hoo, they stole my idea.
Who gives a rip. I don’t. I want to see the best candidate who will actually represent me and my interests.
And right now Scott Rigell hasn’t proven to be it.
Kenny that was a great reply, you are a class act and a true gentleman.
There are two names on the manifest and the chopper is backing down..
Scott and Ben, with all due respect, you are both quite accomplished guys with promising potential for the future but there comes a time to reckon with the facts and lead, follow or get out of the way.
There will be new campaigns down the road and by then you will be better prepared to manage an effective campaign.
I feel all this silly talk is besides the points. If you have attended any of the forums and listened to all the candidates you would hear that many of them have similar views on certain positions, hence they are all running under the Republican ballot. Let’s quit the switch & bait and discuss the ISSUES!!!
Look its as simple as Rigell got one up’ed if it did happen. This is national politics, not some highschool SCA office. You cant plagiarize something if it hasnt been put out into the general public. Not only that the repblican party needs to stick together as a whole. The reson why someone is republican is because they share the same basic ideas and ideology as there rival candidates, some ideas might be a little different but the plattform is generally the same. So instead of bashing all the canidates on this site, because i can assure you that most people have never met all the canidates go out and go to the debates and then you can see for yourself how they are in public. And not how they respond to things in a scripted press release. Then you can make up your minds and see for yourself how they act when dealing with the public and there rivals.
Lacee, that is very, very sad. So Will is doing all of this work for Taylor and not getting paid? I correct my statement then. Your husband ‘volunteers’ for Taylor.
Mike Key, another regular from the Taylor campaign, nice to see you join us. Weren’t you commenting the other day on Taylor’s Facebook page that you didn’t even know he needed signatures and thought he was already on the ballot…or was it ballet… Were you under the impression he was running directly against Nye and not in a primary like so many others?
ItsMe, yes, you can, it’s called “intellectual property rights” and the information obviously was written down. What do you think JR called Rigell and Rigell told him this? No, it was in a document somewhere on the campaign’s computers. Taylor can’t even speak at a forum without notes, how exactly did he just come up with this out of the blue with no physical evidence?
Those of you who fail to recognize the laws of this country should compare yourselves more to the Democrats (who are currently in complete disregard of our Constitution) than someone who gave $1,000 to Obama and $300,000 to Republican candidates. Really, is the $1,000 donation all you have? I fail to see the relevance in that argument for several reasons:
1. This guy owns a business who services the public. Not just one or two people but EVERYONE here locally. If you walked up to the local McDonalds and saw an Obama sign in the window would you go in? No. If you worked for an employer that went around taunting the fact that he was a Democrat would you want to work there? No. If you went to a furniture store to buy furniture and the sales associate was talking about how the healthcare bill and Pelosi were the best things that ever happened to this country would you buy his furniture? NO!
Business lesson number one for those of you who don’t know the first thing about owning a “real” business: Don’t ever discuss religion or politics!
[Don’t you dare try to pull Taylor off as a business person! Real estate business, number of fulltime employees: 1 (himself); Anytime Fitness, number of fulltime employees: 1 (himself); Contracting company, number of fulltime employees: 1 (himself).]
2. If you are so against people donating between parties why don’t you disclose the amount of funds Taylor received from Democrat or Independent voters?
If Rigell has attorneys working on this time will only tell. In the meantime: Kenny, do you still need signatures?
For heavens sake! Freshmen50.com lists all the points and is available to reps and dems alike. It’s so easy a congressman could do it.
ItsMe… your right, and any documents produced to try to prove plagiarism, unless certified, notarized or in the public domain could be fakes or another LaCivita deception. The only public record that is being jumped on are the releases by Taylor and Loyola.
Apparently the Rigell documents are now as thick as soup out there because we received two document E-mails last night which are supposedly the alleged Rigell documents from one of our fellow Northern Virginia Tea Party Patriots. The Patriot says he received them from a staffer in McDonnell’s office. We can’t verify who the staffer is, but these E-mails have gone viral since Bearing Drift published the Rigell Campaign’s objections on Thursday. One of the documents had 9 candidates from Washington, Wisconson, Tennessee, Colorado, Kansas, Ohio, Alabama, Indiana and Florida as signatories which outlined the entire plan. One interesting note in this document that proves it was not in the public domain was where Rigell states:
“Our campaign has not discussed this initiative or the specific reforms with the RNC or NRCC, and I request that we do not share that information with them at this time. I suggest we brief them once we have a degree of consensus. I ask that we keep this confidential, though I’m reminded of Winston Churchill’s quip that in politics “two people can keep a secret, so long as one of them is dead.”
Another was from Bill Christian, as staffer for Todd Young for Congress who outlined the Lincoln Memorial Event and a slogan “New Birth of Freedom”.
Any allegations ranging from theft to plagiarism should thoroughly be run down and substantiated before the 2nd district rips itself apart because a whole lot of people from Washington state to Florida apparently were part of this.
Well “Really” how do you know it was written down? were you there to physically see it written down first. Right now all your playing is a he said she said. And last i checked that wont hold up. And with that your trying to call out Taylor and his business but you know what that is his business. He wasnt handed that buiness from his father in law.. He sacrficed his own money and time to get those buisness started. Not taking anything way from Rigell since he built it up, however it was given to him.
I have been watching the whole pool of Republican candidates running for Nye’s seat since the VB Taxpayer Alliance invited them all to a Q & A at a meeting several months ago. At that time each candidate spoke to all of the issues which now comprise the “Contract on Congress.” I recall being impressed but a little frustrated because they were ALL saying the same things. We’re fortunate to have such a large pool of viable like-minded candidates to choose from. I think these men should spend more time showing the voters what sets them apart and what would make them the best possible representative of the people of the 2nd district instead of bickering over who said what first.
And on the $1000 donation. If it wasnt that big of a deal when why did he donate it then? He still has yet to give a good reason other than i dont want to see Clinton win.. If he didnt think that the 1000 dollar donation was that big of a deal then why do it? ANd also for the record ive been to the debates and i have yet to see anyone of them use a note card or anything else like that. However im also not looking for papers im trying to listen to there. Well see June 8th and hopefully the best person wins.
ItsMe, really? Really? (Hence my name Really???) Do you think JR would retract a post and put up another post clarifying if the campaign didn’t provide proof other than spoken word? JR is smart enough to know what someone says is meaningless unless they can back it up with proof. He would NEVER publish an article without ensuring he had the information to back it. If this is true, and Loyola points at Taylor, and Taylor can produce nothing. And if attorneys are involved do you think they would just go off of someone’s word?
It is politics so when the proof comes out and it is legitmate then i will say OK. But right now its all he said she said. ANd JR didnt say it happend he just is saying that Rigell says it has. No where in there does he say i have proof that says this has happend.
Oh, come on, is this Odu Conservative under another name? If not both of you must have the same spell-check software on your computer (or lack thereof).
You OBVIOUSLY haven’t been to one of the debates. Check the feed here on Bearing Drift and you’ll see who’s using note cards.
Also, in response to your prior post:
“However, definitively, Jason Miyares of the Rigell campaign showed me emails regarding what they call their ‘Big Idea’ campaign.”
For those of you who think this isn’t a big deal, consider the following:
Book #1 by Author #1 is scheduled to be published on March 23 and includes the following story line:
Chapter 1: Gorgeous blonde girl meets tall, dark, handsome man on a plane.
Chapter 2: They miraculously survive a plane accident.
Chapter 3: They fall in love and get married and start to live happily ever after.
Chapter 4: Man is in a car accident and is paralyzed, but the woman stays by his side. He eventually has full recovery.
Chapter 5: Woman gets cancer, loses all of her hair and good looks through treatment, but the man stays by her side. She eventually has full recovery.
Chapter 6: They have a child, a certified genius, who also has a rare and fatal birth defect.
Chapter 7: After scouring the globe for a cure, they find an obscure scientist from a far away country who creates a cure.
Chapter 8: The child is saved through the last minute, unproven intervention.
Chapter 9: The parents and child live happily ever after, with more children and grand-children arriving in time.
The sequence of events in the book is original. The author doesn’t claim to be the first person to think about each individual idea forming the basis of each chapter. After all, the concept of falling and staying in love despite challenges isn’t new.
Author #2 receives an email from a friend at the publishing house with a copy of the book that is about to be published. He panics because it is a great book that will garner Author #1 a lot of publicity. Author #2 quickly drafts Book #2 with the SAME story line in EACH CHAPTER in the SAME ORDER as Book #1. The only difference is that the hero and heroine in Book #2 are ugly, just like Author #2’s actions, as opposed to good-looking. Author #2 manages to get Book #2 published on March 22, a day before Book #1 is released. Author #2 wants to one-up Author #1 and be first with the story in order to get all the publicity and credit for the book.
That is called plagiarism.
Still think it’s no big deal? Civil lawsuit results. Maybe even potential criminal charges as well, particularly against the “friend” at the publishing house who forwarded the email.
So, do you really accept the premise that Taylor and Loyola just happened to sit down with a blank piece of paper, think about some congressional reforms, and end up with the same 9 reforms, in the same order as Rigell’s document, and announce it ONE DAY before Rigell’s planned announcement?
We are smarter than that. And our candidates should be smarter than that.
The only honorable solution in this mess is for Taylor and Loyola to withdraw.
So in the end a few staffers get sacked, the candidates hide behind plausible deniability and the campaign moves on?
Ouch.
Do statements released by a campaign have to be approved by the candidate before release like campaign adds?
2nd District deserves better accountability than that!
The big wonder for me is why these two geniuses decided to release these points jointly! In a debate are they just going to agree with what the other says? Are they going to serve as Co-Members of Congress? Taylor and Loyola are real winners.
Look at it this way. The debates should go much quicker.
Logical Conservative, you had better change your screen name because your “logic” has turned into another example of you jumping to a conclusion before the facts. Whatever happened here has nothing remotely to do with a publishing house, a legal contract with an author, copyright law, patents, intellectual property or ownership of a collection of taking points that are all in the public domain. If this was a book which was going to be published for profit, I might agree, but this is about a document that didn’t officially exist until the screaming started.
As far as buying the sequencing of this, you make a “premise” based on no proof of who copied who, if anyone was actually copied, and then some pre-connected dots that lead to an obvious conclusion spun by the campaign. There seems to be a lot of demand for “pre-packaged conclusions” for those who need Rigell’s campaign to do their thinking for them.
The more I see, the more it smells of a publicity stunt. There hasn’t been a release on the Rigell website and it’s possible that the noise generated on this blog is being used to get either a newspaper or a local TV station to pick this up for some free white space or air time. Playing “victim” to trick the media and manipulate voters.
Tim J, the saying is any publicity is good publicity.
what’s hilarious is that Rigell is getting blasted nationwide for NOT BEING A CONSERVATIVE. He’s not. Plain and simple. Done. Get over it. Enjoy your weekend, understand that your country club boy is not going to be going to congress, and move on. Sorry folks, it is what it is. Obama donation. Donation to Yes Campaign. Obama’s boy Sessoms support. Spending gobs of money on a primary…hmmm what else…nope, that’s MORE than enough. Rigell would get pushed around in Congress…as far as I’m concerned, he’s as bad as Nye. Thanks.
Lacee, just curious, how much does Taylor pay you per post? Oh wait, that’s right, your husband is a “volunteer.” Hey, which reminds me, where’s the evidence of those attacks that the other campaign was doing to you? The death threats to your family, videos not suitable for little boys… Oh shoot, another reminder: WHAT IS YOUR 8 YEAR OLD SON DOING ON THE INTERNET?
I guess they don’t teach metaphor and simile anymore in English 101.
I am concerned about this video. PLease provide me the link. If it is unsuitable it should not even be accessible by any moral voter.
Citizen, I too am concerned about the video. I am more concerned about other campaigns threatening people’s lives. If those allegations are true plagiarism/smagiarism…there are bigger fish to fry. But, I don’t think she has the proof to back up her claims. This was said before she realized we knew exactly who she was and what campaign she was associated with.
Really ???,
Not really ( pardon the pun) associated with a campaign. Just concerned when a possible black eye is coming to our party.
I imagine on sites like this there are many campaign sided posts; That comes with the territory I suppose. I just need to know when the candidates are being lewd, lascivious, underhanded or otherwise acting in an unacceptable behavior.
Thanks
All,
I must warn you. Assertions made EVEN ON A BLOG can be used as evidence and considered during assault/attempted assault criminal proceedings. A Quote earlier today was “Rigell’s people have been sending out nasty videos, one of which my 8 year old son saw. His supporters have threatened my family, and continue to do so.” If in fact a threat has been made it is reportable and punishable.
Please use discretion when accusing anyone; If valid, please contact your local police district.
Thank you.
Tim J. yes, I was in DC and had 4 other meetings,none with the NRCC. Had to go to Suitland to pick up my 4×8 signs….did not participate nor was invited.
Really????? Thank you for asking…yes I do need more signatures..my campaign office is 3707 Virginia Beach Blvd., the Byler Bldg…2nd floor! It is near Rosemont and Virginia Beach Blvd. Always glad to have visitors!!
If anyone is just joining this blog..my comments on this issue are located in the older comments section! Thanks to all for their positive comments!
Right. Like i’m supposed to report that people are creating fake facebook profiles of Scott’s family and staff, sending out terrible videos and sending nasty messages about keep scott taylor out of my neighborhood or else…give me a break.
Scott Taylor Takes Down Nye in November
That’s what we’ll be cheering soon enough.
Here is what’s important, and you all are missing it. Rigell is NOT a Conservative. I’ll post it everyday until June 8th. We all question those of you that rally around his “conservative conviction”
It’s laughable.
1k Obama donation. 10k to Yes Campaign. The list goes on and on. Thank you, have a great weekend.
Character and heart is what sets one man or woman apart from the other.
Kenny G, I’ll be by next week to sign and I hope everyone else on here does too.
Lacee, so basically you have no evidence? Much like Taylor’s lack of evidence on creating this document. YES, you are supposed to report people on Facebook, hence the “report” button. You seem to have left out the threats to you and your family, did that happen as well? Or does the story change as you go along?
As for your reference “Scott Taylor takes down Nye in November,” please see my other post under the original article. Nye will definitely take down Scott Taylor in November, if it even comes to that. Sadly, all it will take is a simple background search.
Lacee, even though I care very much for Scott Taylor, since this sad story is on the front page today of the Virginian Pilot, I think Scott Taylor and Ben Loyola will have a difficult time overcoming this. I’m not so sure Rigell will be left unscathed by it since his name will be attached to something unseemly. People may forget what it was all about but they won’t forget the stomach turning feeling when they read it or maybe the names of the persons attached to the article.
Kenny, I’ll be by Monday to sign for you. I would have signed already but our paths haven’t crossed recently because of our schedules in life. I signed for everyone else.
The whole arc of this story is disappointing. As most of you know, I am a staunch Rigell supporter, but I’m a republican first.
If we allow this type of politics to stand in our party then we are no better than those who practice these politics.
I called Kenny Golden yesterday and we spoke on this subject for twenty minutes. I urged him to come forward if he knew anything that could shed light on this story. I believe Kenny to be a honorable man and I believe that he did not know the material was plagiarized when it was presented to him by Loyola. I apologize to Kenny if anyone mistook a post I made yesterday implicating him in these unethical tactics.
I expect Kenny to run a clean race based on differences in ideas and the differences in personality that make these two candidates solid leaders. I respect Kenny Golden, even though I feel Scott Rigell is the leader necessary during this time.
This is a sad chapter-it’s not politics as usual, as some would have us believe. I hope that Taylor and Loyola eventually come to understand the ramifications of their actions and do the honorable thing-withdraw from the race.
Richard, at this point the only one I can support for this race is Kenny Golden. He has been a leader in the Military, a leader in the Republican Party, and has proven he has the maturity to not make controversial decisions that will hurt our party and give us all a black eye, (guilt by association).
By the way Richard, your quote, “I hope that Taylor and Loyola eventually come to understand the ramifications of their actions and do the honorable thing-withdraw from the race.”
When Scott Rigell cried foul, my competitors stole my list, obviously he thought about his competitors having to withdraw from the race. But did he think beyond having two less competitors? Did he think about the stain on this race that can only help Nye? Did he think about the Republican Party? Maybe you can ask him and get back to us.
Kathy-
I speak for myself. I do not represent the Rigell campaign. I personally believe that these two guys have so sullied the reputation of the party that they should be honorable and withdraw.
As far as campaign tactics go…. it only helps Rigell to have many candidates in the primary. If I were to give him political advice I’d tell him to let it alone now. The public will decide. He should be above it.
What I want as a party guy is that our candidates conduct themselves with the utmost honor and dignity and if they cross an ethical line they should withdraw in favor of the party. The GOP can only defeat Nye if it comes together to overcome his campaign. Taylor and Loyola will only continue to fracture our party if they stay in-no matter who the nominee is.
So my position ethically hurts Rigell’s political primary tactics, but I don’t care. As I’ve said-I’m all about party and integrity first. If it is more difficult for Rigell to win with two less candidates then so be it. I value the party more than any one candidate, even though I will work hard for Rigell to be that nominee.
I wish he had been above it before it got into the papers.
Kathy-
How do you equate his ideas being stolen as being equal to the theft?
Rigell was leading a movement of 20 other congressional candidates across the country. This is bigger than just his campaign. He is compelled to answer these ridiculous actions.
There is no moral equivalency here. He is defending his work and the work of other strong conservative leaders across the nation.
Do you miss the irony here? These nine points address ethics reforms for Congress-and they were stolen from him! He has made this a priority and he is right to defend his principles. There is no room for moral equivalency.
Richard…. “stolen”? Please tell us the facts of when, where, who and why so that we can have the benefit of your inside knowledge.
As far as the article is concerned… “Jason Miyares, Rigell’s campaign manager, said Rigell and his staff believe they know how the plan was obtained by their opponents but declined to be specific.” and then Gary C. Byler, “declined to comment about whether Rigell’s accusation is valid.”
Lots of people who received these documents are pointing back to someone in Bob McDonnell’s office as the source, so if this is proven or Jason knows this, then this whole thing could backfire on Rigell.
All of this is still an accusation and until there is a legal proceeding and there are facts, evidence and a conviction then as far as we’re concerned, it’s all a bunch of inter-campaign hogwash.
By the way JR, in the VP article, Bill Bartel didn’t give you any credit or did he reference Bearing Drift for breaking this story. He should be accused of “plagiarism” where he sourced a lot of points you have made which are very close the language you used without attribution, which warrants a word by word investigation of his VP article.
Since we now have two public sources for this story, it should be easy to see who plagiarized who.
Oh, and let’s not forget the contributions from all those who have posted here and their contribution to his article.
Tim J-
Right on, brother.
Let’s just say, I’m less than pleased. Either one of two things happened:
1) The Rigell campaign failed to inform the Pilot that this story already broke
2) Bartel was told and failed to source BD
Regardless, BD is not the story. The story is whether two candidates intentionally tried to undermine another campaign or if one campaign is trying to torpedo two others because they’re scared of the polling data.
Either way, it’s worth the scrutiny.
So this is what our political life has come to? Intelligent and competent men engaging in a food fight over an issue that is of no importance at all? Does anyone think a freshmen Representative would have any influence on the way Congress goes about its business? Please, as a citizen, I want to hear about the important issues of the day. What about regulatory reform since we avoided a depression by the wink of an eye? What about national security in an era of asymmetrical warfare? What will you do to retain military assets in Hampton Roads, your district, and Virginia? Will you raise federal gas taxes to sustain the interstate highway system? Believe it or not, all three of you look like absolute idiots because you are playing a game of inside baseball for the party loyalists and ignoring what is important to future constituents. Stop it, or leave the race before you embarrass yourself further.
Believe it or not, Mike…I said something very similar to one of the campaigns. I agree with you.
Mike… finally… issues!! You’ve poked your head out of this gopher hole to see Nye and his party pointing and laughing at us because this 3 ring circus has been all totally focused on the clown show in the campaigns as the issue, not our country, the district or the people who live here.
If the campaigns in the 2nd keep making each other the issue, then the loudest and funniest clown will win the Primary and Nye will win the election. The 2nd will become a circus side show this fall and Republicans might as well join Barnum and Bailey as the elephant act for “The Greatest Show on Earth!”.
Thank God I live in the 1st…
I feel the same way Mike Barrett. That’s why I said, “I wish he had been above it before it got into the papers.”
While it’s easy to get caught up in the hey, it’s just politics or no big deal, this is a very big deal, if true, especially for the party at large.
This story has national implications; as mentioned by JR originally and in the VP, the Rigell camp allegedly reached out to numerous campaigns across the country, who signed onto these pledges. While the egg may seemingly be on Rigell’s face, there’s untold number of candidates around the country who may be waiting so they can get behind this platform. They’ve already agreed to move on this, and get behind it. Kathy specifically, the idea that Rigell should have let it go is a fair one, if there weren’t other campaigns around the country who had signed onto this.
D.J., the older you get, the more you know how to pick your battles. This battle is so petty. Somebody stole my ideas? Come on! This was a work between numerous people that was sent out, maybe by mistake, from someone in Richmond to numerous people. Give me a break! Because of this, I will support the candidate I believe the most experienced, who cares about our party, and has stayed on THE IMPORTANT ISSUES. That person now is Kenny Golden.
By the way D.J., the reform plan is a good one. I’m sure quite a few Republicans will sign it because these reforms have been ideas for a long time.
JR, if this was a torpedo attack on Taylor/Loyola over polling data then my hat is off and I have newfound respect for LaCivita who is the new “Carl Rove” of politics. If they can’t recover or get by this, then Nye will have his hands full in the Fall election because it’s going to get nasty, dirty and he should have Nye on the ropes fairly quickly for a landslide win.
We saw Loyola and Taylor today at the Oyster Roast in Virginia Beach today and several people asked about the newspaper article.
LaCivita was not involved in any of this. Unfortunately, his father passed away last Friday. Condolences to Chris.
Our condolences.
Chris, I am very sorry for your loss.
‘Politics is not a bad profession. If you succeed, there are many rewards;
if you disgrace yourself, you can always write a book.’
-Ronald Reagan
RIP Mr. LaCivita. Condolences to you and your family.
Hello Will from Taylor’s campaign! (Who’s not getting paid for all he does and just volunteers.) Since we couldn’t get an answer from your wife, maybe you could tell us if you and your family are still receiving the “alleged” death threats and inappropriate videos.
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