Fees aren’t taxes
I haven’t started a good messy fight in a while, so I thought why not now?
I’m getting emails so often about the state budget, trying to make it seem like Armageddon if someone has to pay an extra court cost or a few dimes more for a fifth of Jack Daniels.
Sorry, that’s not the same as raising taxes in the minds of the public.
I don’t favor going fee crazy either. That’s the nuttiness that creates abuser fees for speeding tickets. But the bottom line is this: Most people see fees and taxes as different things. It’s the truth, and it’s backed up by every poll I’ve ever seen.
If government’s getting the money is all that is required for something to be called a tax, then the lottery is a tax, and when a scratch ticket price goes up another buck, Americans for Prosperity can attack legislators for the massive tax increase.
And everyone will laugh at them.
Take transportation. Every poll will say tolls are more preferable than taxes when building a new road. Why? Most people won’t have to pay a toll. Don’t drive the road (and most won’t), don’t pay for it.
Studies show that 2/3rds of the voters in Hampton Roads don’t regularly travel between the Southside and the Peninsula. So, building a Third Crossing with a tax increase fails with about a 2/3rds no vote. Surprised? Build it with tolls? Giant levels of support.
It’s why cigarette taxes are met with very little voter opposition. 70% of people don’t smoke. Red light cameras are supported by vast majorities, because most people don’t run red lights.
So, when the General Assembly says no to increased income taxes, and no to increased sales taxes, and rightly so, an email from Americans from Prosperity talking about the economy-collapsing effects of an 18-cent phone fee, I start to roll my eyes and wish they read “The Boy Who Cried Wolf” when they were younger.
I know we’re against taxes and all, but are we to believe that Virginians would be driven to economic ruin over paying another $2.16 a year in a phone bill? I’m against drowning, but that doesn’t mean I won’t take a shower.
The hyperbole is on both sides. Rolling back government spending to 2006 levels isn’t exactly throwing teachers out on the streets either, so the teachers’ unions can save their email blasts, too.
In fact, I invite any teacher who is unhappy with the prospects of teaching in Virginia to warm up that resume and test the job market out in the private sector. I’m sure you’ll find it lovely.
Bottom line – It’s a very tough economy, and 100 Delegates, 40 Senators, and a very good Governor are trying to hold things together while putting some things in place to get the economy moving again. If a few fees are part of getting us to that point, I’ll be the first one calling for their repeal when the economy improves, but I’m not going to scream about a 99% victory as if it was a 1% defeat.
And I’m not going to lessen the effectiveness of real critiques by crying wolf constantly. We’ve already won a major victory, in that a very partisan Democrat Senate crossed off income taxes and sales taxes despite many efforts by Senators to increase them.
We’ll soon see if the House and Senate can agree on a state budget. I hope they can. I also hope that those who benefit from complaining the loudest on both sides can chill a bit. We only get a budget if both sides agree. No one’s getting everything they want.
Let’s let the McDonnell and Bolling work at turning the state economy around, which is the reason they were elected. Success in that will lead to fixing any budget imperfections in the next session.
Now….fire away!
Category: Government
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This evening, I’ve heard the Senate has offered to drop it to a 10 cent fee.
Sure that’s a big deal being rescued like that, but how often does that happen? How often are they exposed to that risk. As compared to police and fire? ABC agents rank with police/fire? Really? *rolling my eyes*
High speed chases, gun fire exchanges, having something smashed over your head by the battered wife protecting her abusive husband from arresting officers, fire, falling/burning beams, backdraft, rescuing burn victims? Does it even compare? How about the guys in police/fire/rescue squads that are the first to search that rolled crumpled mini-van to see if any of the children are still alive? I’d be a basket case. Personally, I’d rather take my chances trying to rescue lost skiers.
The fact that this bill does include ABC, Game Wardens etc. just lends credibility to the transparency arguement and the AFP. Sounds like a government or union thing, which stinks. William how will your brothers feel if they found out they could get a lot more if they weren’t lumped in with ABC? They already get lied to and hear false promises. Why don’t they get an out in the open funding for just their benefit? Virginia Beach would just rather build trains, build multi-million SPCA facilities, and develop pedestrian friendly zones. Now the state is gonna lump them in with people, though good public servants, not in the same realm as Fire/Law Enforcement? That’s every bit as insulting as the murkiness of the bill and adding a completely new tax.
William, its the principle and the idea of addressing root causes of government waste. Not the difference between 10-18 cents. Give us a real bill for public safety. I’ll support it. Even if the AFP doesn’t.
“Here’s a question: Did the Virginia Telecommunications Industry Association, which issued a statement in opposition to this fee, pay (or should I say “donate” to) Americans for Prosperity to gin up a grassroots attack?” – Steve Lebowitz
Steve, you’re raising the price of their product and reducing the abilty of the customer to pay for it. I don’t know if they reacted or not. I would have if I were them. This isn’t the first time they’ve been targeted. Especially here in VB.
As for starting up a “grass roots” attack. In the current economic/political climate, incentive or the AFP isn’t even needed to get people to vocally oppose new taxes that lack transparency and group expenditures that that shouldn’t be grouped.
Britt: The funding isn’t to fund somebody who might face the risk once in a career. It only provides funds to the families of those killed. Most of us will never face death in the line of duty but this bill funds those who have given everything they have. If a Game Warden dies protecting one citizen in Virginia, I think he deserves this benefit.
I don’t value one person or job over an other. Male, female, black, white, firefighter or cop, it matters not if you get killed in the line of duty protecting the citizens of Virginia.
Pleased to read Lt. Governor Bolling weigh in on the topic of fees. The criteria he espoused made it quite clear that existing revenue for the transportation trust fund have a direct relationship to the service provided. That of course opens the door to increases in the gas tax, the sales tax on items with a nexus to transportation, registration fees, rental car taxes, and the tax on motor vehicle insurance. I take this as a hopeful sign that the House will realize that its policy of destruction of our transportation infrastructure through neglect has to change.
William, I’m not sure why you brought race or sex into it, I don’t value one life over another. As a Libertarian, I believe that it is self-evident that we are all equal under just law and God. However, I do value some occupations over others. I do discriminate as to where tax dollars should be spent.
A good deal of us could face potential death. Heavy equipment accidents, machinery automation accidents, a teacher could be killed at school by a student, the driver’s ed guy could be killed in a wreck, a hospital worker could die of a communicable disease, a HRT bus could be smashed by a light rail train. Where do you draw the line?
If you draw the line……anywhere, you have by definition discriminated and attributed value.
If a delivery driver dies, I feel horribly for him and his family. Does that mean I should be obligated to fund his death benefits?
What? A pizza driver doesn’t save lives? Sounds like you just discriminated. How about that ABC guy/gal?
Certain professions put the employee in frequent danger in protecting others. War time soldiers, Seals, police, fire, etc. fit that category. I feel our government OWES those guys. The desk clerk,…….not so much.
I’m not the only one that values some professions over others. The voters do too. The firemen collecting for Muscular Distrophy would not bring in as much were they not obviously firemen. Some donors, ironicly, don’t pay attention and think they’re donating to something for firemen. I’ve heard as much from people.
In this legislation, once again, police and fire are being used to further somebody else’s design. Kinda like VB council does.
How is morale affected if you can’t afford to live in the city you protect? Get lied to about pay compression fixes? Told you’re equal to ABC? Told you’re equal to corrections. Told there will be pay parity because you’re equal. What if you are in corrections and you’re told that and you are told you’ll get pay parity with police during an election year for sheriff? How is that going for you, by the way? Think you weren’t lied to?
Public Safety deserves special treatment. And by that, I don’t mean being used like poker chips to continually hold homeowners hostage at the expense of safety of our police & fire.
So, yes, I value police and fire professions above ABC and even game wardens. I don’t apologize for that. Of all people, William, I would think YOU would understand.
Britt howard – The family of an ABC officer would qualify only if the officer is injured or killed in the line of duty, just like any other uniformed public safety officer. See the statute:
http://law.justia.com/virginia/codes/toc0901000/9.1-400.html
I disagree with you about the impact an 18 cents monthly fee will have on the telecommunications industry. I don’t believe a single telecom will lose a single customer over 18 cents a month. Two dollars and sixteen cents a year.
Too bad this discussion has turned away from Americans for Prosperity’s deceit. AFP’s radio ads, direct mail, and website bloviate about a “24 percent tax hike,” never revealing that it’s only 18 cents per phone line per month. They call 18 cents “a huge tax hike.” Two dollars and sixteen cents a year is not a huge tax hike.
Even worse, AFP distorts the purpose of the tax, never mentioning the Line of Duty fund benefitting only uniformed first responders injured or killed in the course of protecting or rescuing others. Instead, AFP claims the tax will fund “an array of benefits for a wide variety of state and local government employees.” [NOT TRUE: Read the statute linked above to see for yourself.]
Notice how Ben Marchi has disappeared from this thread. Does he have the guts to defend AFP, to refute my contention that their campaign is deceptive? And will he answer my earlier question: Did telecoms “donate” to AFP to fund the attack against this tax? It sure looks like AFP is exploiting their followers’ good will, ginning them up about what they call a “24 percent tax hike” to fund “an array of benefits for a wide variety of state and local government employees,” never revealing it’s only 18 cents a month for uniformed public safety officer injured or killed on the job.
Speak up, Ben Marchi, or your silence will speak for you.
- Steve Lebowitz, Annapolis, Maryland
I posted a challenge to AFP policy director (and fellow Mets fan) Phil Kerpen on twitter:
“Will you square off with me at bearingdrift.com on the Virginia E-911 tax increase @kerpen ? http://ow.ly/1gTGo ”
Stay tuned.
- Steve Lebowitz, Annapolis, Maryland
Marchi is a pathetic coward.
Not sure why people are missing the point. It doesn’t matter whether 18 cents is a lot or a little. It matters whether it is honest to claim it is in some way related to e911 and it is not. The 911 fee/tax (fee for wireless, tax for wireline) is to fund answering and locating emergency callers to 911 and the current 75 cents fully covers that cost. The 18 cents is supposedly to cover Line of Duty costs associated with death benefits and medical costs for covered persons. If you want to be honest, just create a new FEE called the Line of Duty FEE and set the money aside accordingly. Problem is that the current costs for these benefits are already covered out of general funds in the current budget to the tune of about $9 million per year in the House budget. The 18 cents raises about $19 million year. So the two are not even related. The new fee is an effort by the senate to increase general fund revenues by $38 million over the two years and we really don’t know what it will pay for. Brian and Steve can misdirect till the cows come home, but the fact is that this fee/tax is not about 911 and it is not about LOD. It is about increasing general funds to cover general fund expenses. If it were about LOD, call it that and create the new fee accordingly. If it is about new general funds, raise taxes accordingly. Under no circumstances is it OK to call it 911 and simply lie to Virginia tax payers. Both Brian and Steve owe Virginians an apology. Especially Brian since he is one of us.
Rob: Nobody seems to be missing the point in my view. It is clear as can be that you and AFP are just offering more “Smoke & Mirror” excuses to object to the .18 cents. I don’t care what you claim to want to call it, you would still object to the fee… Duh… I get it.
And for the record, I have four phones and I don’t mind paying the .72 cent fee…
Rob – You say,
“The new fee is an effort by the senate to increase general fund revenues by $38 million over the two years and we really don’t know what it will pay for.”
but the Senate’s provision makes clear that the revenue does not go to the general fund; it goes directly and exclusively to the Line of Duty fund:
Benefits paid under the Line of Duty Act shall be funded by the $0.18
surcharge, which shall be billed, collected and remitted in the same manner as the E-911 fee and shall be deposited by the
Virginia Information Technologies Agency and the Department of Taxation, as applicable, directly to the Line of Duty Death
and Health Benefits Trust Fund of the state treasury and on the books of the State Comptroller.
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?101+bud+13-6.02+pdf
From my reading of the provision, there may be a separate breakout on phone bills saying, “LINE OF DUTY FEE…. $0.18.”
Whether there is a separate breakout or not, there is a direct link from the fee to the recipient: When you call 911, a uniformed public safety officer responds, without regard to his safety, to rescue or protect others. This fee replenishes the Line of Duty fund that pays disability or death benefits to families of 911 responders injured or killed in the line of duty. Rarely is a tax or fee more directly linked to the service it funds than this, and rarely are the beneficiaries as worthy.
I’ve shown how Americans for Prosperity has concealed the facts, refused to disclose contributors that might have a vested interest in their opposition, and distorted the truth. Shame on Americans for Prosperity.
- Steve Lebowitz, Annapolis, Maryland
Steve,
Thanks for the enlightenment. I am not a member of AFP and I don’t object to the new fee/tax so long as citizens acutally know what it is for and legislators vote on it accordingly. I believe this has been tried for the past several years and defeated each year. It was tried this year and again defeated (six different bills I believe). Now it is the budget process being used and that prevents public debate. Seems like the wrong way to do it if it is a good idea.
As I now understand this, it is creating a new “trust fund” with approximately twice as much money in it as the actual costs in the House budget to be paid out in benefits. I also believe that these benefits are paid out of the general fund (maybe by law). So I still don’t get why we are creating a savings plan with more money than is needed to cover costs at a time when there are painful cuts being made to other programs. That is why I believe the money will get used somewhere else. Not sure what would be worse, increasing taxes/fees to put in a savings plan when others are being cut, or calling it one thing when it is really another. But I don’t care so long as the public is informed.
While we are at it, I also don’t understand why death benefits wouldn’t be more cost effectively handled by a group life insurance plan (with a rider multiplying the value for dying on the job)and medical benefits by group health and workers comp. We ought to be able to get a heck of a lot of coverage for $9 million per year as currently budgeted.
I don’t think the issue is what they call this new fee/tax on the phone bill. I think the issue is what do they call it in the legislative bill and during the debate. If you can pass it by calling it what it is and by telling the truth during the public debate about what it will fund, so be it.
Rob -
You & I have found common ground:
“I don’t think the issue is what they call this new fee/tax on the phone bill. I think the issue is what do they call it in the legislative bill and during the debate. If you can pass it by calling it what it is and by telling the truth during the public debate about what it will fund, so be it.”
I agree. I think Gov. Kaine proposed this in a transparent manner, and the Senate adopted it in a transparent manner. Both made clear in budget documents and legislation that the tax is an 18 cent surcharge fot the Line of Duty fund, providing death and disability benefits to uniformed first responders injured or killed on the job.
The deception and withholding of information was done by Americans for Prosperity, which did not reveal that the tax is only 18 cents a month, distorted the purpose of the tax, and refuses to disclose contributors with a mistaken idea of vested interest that might be paying AP to gin up a grassroots attack.
- Steve Lebowitz, Annapolis, Maryland
Steve,
Glad to hear we have common ground. However I don’t understand your anger at AFP for not disclosing contributors. Is that somehow different from not disclosing that this entire trust fund idea is from labor and that is a major reason the former governor and the democratic senate are behind it? Surely you don’t believe that only labor unions can have grass roots.
I think we should stick to the facts of the idea and whether it passes muster on its own. Selective use of facts is wrong for both sides.
Anyway, it is almost over for this year. Hope all is well in Maryland.
And today we find more republicans of courage and integrity who have spoken up about the need to reverse the decline in the condition of the state’s transportation infrastructure. Tom Rust and Chairman Joe May have proposed the creation of a transportation infrastructure user fee of $0.15 that would be levied on gasoline to jump start the construction of needed projects. This is required because there is no new money for construction, and we don’t really have enough money for maintenance either. Having dug a hole for the last decade, the majority in the House of Delegates must now realize they will punished at the polls if they don’t resolve this issue.
I’ve been told the .18 cent per line fee was included in the final budget vote. I’ll have to check on that report.
Nope it was not. I think the employers of the covered folks now have to pay the premiums to cover the benefits.