NoVa Delegate Solution for HRBT: Toll, toll, toll!
By D.J. Spiker | Wednesday, January 27th, 2010 | PolicyIn another dead-end idea, this one crafted by a Republican delegate from Leesburg, Delegate Joe May introduced legislation today calling for a $2 toll on the Hampton Roads Bridge-Tunnel and Monitor-Merrimac Bridge-Tunnel. Just to be clear, Del. May’s district sits roughly 208 miles away from the HRBT.
May’s legislation was in response to being ‘somewhat taken aback’ by hearing that funding wasn’t available for routine maintenance on the tunnel in the aftermath of the tunnel shutdown last summer. Funding, not available for a VDOT maintained operation? SHOCKING!
I would hope that Hampton Roads legislators will rope this one off before it gets any traction. However, May is the head of the Transportation Committee as well as chairing the Joint Committee on Transportation Accountability.
In the meantime, as Brian suggested via twitter: Can we vote to put tolls on a Northern Virginia road? Good for goose, ya know.
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Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right...entrenched on the right as a member of the Establishment, proudly tattooed member of the Republican Party, bartender by trade serving both sides the libations needed to continue the debate and discourse. College student, ten years late, majoring in Public Policy and Administration with an eye to serving the conservative and Republican movement in the public or private sector. ducit amor patriae You can find D.J.on facebook, Twitter, or contact via email at gosport.conservative@gmail.com. You can find D.J.on facebook, Twitter, or contact via email at gosport.conservative@gmail.com.
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25 Responses to "NoVa Delegate Solution for HRBT: Toll, toll, toll!"
Well, this is exactly what happens after a decade of neglect for our transportation system. Aterall, wise cracks and slogans don’t sustain a transportation system, and our own citizens, by refusing to correct the failure of legislative leadership, voted against solving this problem ourselves. So when leaders fail, and citizens demur, others take action. In a sense, we deserve to be victims since we refused to take care of ourselves.
That’s it, Mike. Keep insulting voters. Tell me how well that advances your agenda.
Sorry, Brian
I have to agree with Mike. Take the tolls and put them in a lock box for maintenance. But let’s not be cheap about it. Raise it to $5.00 one way either when leaving or entering. Matter of fact, make it $10 for passenger cars. Maybe we will see the HOV lanes get filled with car pools and a faster traffic flow.
Of course, Wally. What would you care? Do you drive the tunnel enough to make a difference to you? Real brave to tell people to pay ten bucks a trip that you’ll never pay.
What Mike won’t tell you is that once they enact tolls, NOVA grabs the existing revenue stream for maintenance for those tunnels. So we pay for theirs while we pay for ours.
I agree w/ Mike 100%. We had the chance to implement a miniscule sales tax to fund transportation back in 2002, but we short-sighted voters couldn’t reject it fast enough. Now we sit in traffic for free.
And the same percentage oppose this idea. Eight years, and Mike hasn’t budged the numbers at all.
But it’s nice to see Jimmy D join Mike in insulting voters. Namecalling….
This proposal has the makings of a Virginia Mason-Dixon line. Tolls are always easiest to propose for those who don’t have to pay them. And would any tolls extorted from us get firewalled for “maintenance” where they are collected? Nope. Cheap shot Del. May.
Well, Brian perhaps I made the economical decision to live centrally located in the area in which I’m employed. I save on gas, I don’t waste time, and you are right, I wouldn’t have to pay a toll. Sometimes people must make choices to fit their life style and income.
Wally,
I wouldn’t put a large toll on for now.
Once we get LRT across the harbor, we can then consider a large toll as a means to induce commuters to use mass transit.
I can see above that Brian is just about losing it. I guess he realizes that having made his political career based upon No Car Tax, he realizes that the Commonwealth is so broke that they will not be able to fund their promise to local governments, so the car tax is back again in full force. This must represent a stinging defeat to his political philosophy, which is that a free lunch is great so long as it lasts. Too bad Brian, you are about to go down in flames. Of course, the theory is that the Governor will cut that transfer payment from the budget, and make local officials collect the tax locally. Leadership?
Now Mike attacks me.
How’s that “Deeds for Governor” campaign going?
Henry wants to use tolls not to raise revenue, but to bludgeon people into being forced to use public transit like he does. A forced “public option” eh?
Well actually Brian, I have long ago admitted that any attempt to actually run an honest campaign is doomed to failure when there are political operatives like you around to come up with catchy bumper stickers, attack ads, and quips on the blog. But you are the one who has to live with that, not me. And since you apparently could care not one wit, I guess you are pleased with the result. I’m not.
May’s a pretty sneaky guy. The boys must be working overtime in the smokey rooms of the Hillbilly Hideaway. This toll plan could be used as a back door to provide funding for the Third Crossing.
“revenues collected from the Monitor Merrimac Memorial Bridge-Tunnel…shall be allocated by the Commonwealth Transportation Board for the operation, maintenance, and future improvements or replacement of the Monitor Merrimac Memorial Bridge-Tunnel and the approaches to it.”
“approaches” to the Monitor Merrimac Memorial Bridge-Tunnel shall include Interstate Route 664 from the Interstate Route 64 interchange at the Hampton Coliseum to the Interstate Route 64/Interstate Route 264 interchange at Bowers Hill in Chesapeake.”
“revenues collected from the Hampton Roads Bridge-Tunnel toll facility…shall be allocated by the Commonwealth Transportation Board for the operation, maintenance, and future improvements or replacement of the Hampton Roads Bridge-Tunnel and the approaches to it”
“approaches” to the Hampton Roads Bridge-Tunnel shall include Interstate Route 64 from the Interstate Route 664 interchange at the Hampton Coliseum to the Interstate Route 264 interchange in Norfolk.”
With this plan, the funding source is now available to issue bonds subject to the whims of the GA. Just change the law to fit the need. The courts won’t touch a case using tolls instead of the taxes that killed HB3202, and it passes the constitutional test because there’s no amendment locking the funds or the GA’s hands. More importantly, there’s no referendum, no interference by pesky citizens, and a better than even chance of not suffering the electoral fate of Marty Williams.
I’d be surprised if this bill dies in committee.
I am a conservative and believe that a usage tax which this is, is the best way to deal with the problems that we are having with our transportation. Let the people who drive and wear out the roads and tunnel fund the money to fix and maintain those roads and tunnels. The HRBT is 50 years old we really need to find a way to get some new revenue sources to help deal with this problem, its not going to magically go away.
The trucks and larger vehicles should pay a higher fee since they those types of vehicles contribute more to the problem in both congestion and wear and tear on the roads.
Well Matt, conservatively speaking this bill will cost Hampton Roads drivers 90 million bucks a year.
In fact, HRMPO’s toll study set an optimized peak fee of two dollars on MMBT, JRB, and HRBT as providing needed revenue to build the Third Crossing. HRBT was never part of the plan, and only became an option because the North Side politicians complained.
The report also said that such a high toll would cause a massive reduction of cross water traffic, creating a barrier to jobs and economic growth. Just what we need in this current climate. The consultant recommended a buck fifteen tops to maintain maximum cash flow. This is true whether they are building the Third Crossing or using the money for maintenance. Delegate May apparently didn’t get that memo or his HR back room buddies kept him in the dark. Either way, this a bad bill.
I was ’somewhat taken aback’ when I saw pictures of standstill traffic stuck in an inefficient transportaion system up there in Northern Virginia. What I would suggest is a $20 toll on the “Beltway” in or out. Tranportation workers will get plenty of excercise as they walk car to car in the dead still traffic and ask for money.
I propose a $4 toll on any roadway leading into Leesburg. This new revenue stream would be used to build better roadways OUT of Leesburg.
I was also ’somewhat taken aback’ at reading postings from Henry and Wally.
“Once we get LRT across the harbor, we can then consider a large toll as a means to induce commuters to use mass transit.” – Henry Ryto
See, Henry wants to take away your car and force you to be like him and ride mass transit.
“Well, Brian perhaps I made the economical decision to live centrally located in the area in which I’m employed. I save on gas, I don’t waste time, and you are right, I wouldn’t have to pay a toll. Sometimes people must make choices to fit their life style and income.” – Wally
Wally looks to force you to be smart like he is, and live where he does. Otherwise, you and the local economy in Wally’s area should be punished by tolls. Tolls that will tax the
transportation of people(labor) and goods. It ammounts to an increased cost of living for individuals and an additional cost for businesses.
Don’t get me wrong, I support tolls……..on new roads that have not been paid for. What I don’t support is tolls on existing roads that have been paid for already. I don’t believe in new tolls on paid for roadways to pay for maintenance because its funding was stolen for other projects after being “laundered” through the general fund by creative accounting.
When I consider that May’s proposal comes from Northern Virginia and that he is so interestingly looking to “protect” somebody else’s constituency, I am ’somewhat taken aback’. Also, since one could understandably speculate that the proposal came from Northern Virginia, but at the suggestion of a cowardly Hampton Roads official wanting to hide in the shadows, I stand reminded that lovers of “Big Government” rarely take “no” as an answer. They will force their will upon you for their own gain whether you can be fleeced into accepting it or not. They just try another door, another kind of tax, a different spin, or just wear you down until you finally acquiesce.
Britt, to be fair, there are only really two major roadways from the more populated areas of NOVA to Leesburg, 7 and 267 (three if you go way out on 50 and take 15 up). One of them is already is a tollway (The Dulles Toll Road/Dulles Greenway). Last time I took it, a one way trip to Leesburg on a Saturday morning cost me close to 5 dollars.
Britt,
Where did I ever confiscate anyone’s car? (Of course, I didn’t, but never expect the truth from a TLPer.)
Britt: A word of clarification. I believe if you read my post, I specifically stated “passenger cars”. Commercial vehicles that deliver goods and services are not the rush hour problems; commuters are.
How sad it is that supposed intelligent posters dither and dicker over ideology as our system of access into and out of Hampton Roads is increasingly at risk. Kind of like arguing over the cost of lunch on the Titanic as it approaches the iceberg. But it wins elections, it must be good! MJB sends!
Too funny, Henry! I never said you did confiscate anyone’s car. You just want to! You want to accomplish that end by confiscatory taxation. It is all in YOUR words.
“Once we get LRT across the harbor, we can then consider a large toll as a means to induce commuters to use mass transit.” – Henry Ryto
You suggest a toll as leverage to economically force people to give up independent transportation(cars)in favor of mass transit. You can’t simply argue benefits of mass transit. You call for punishing those that are not like you and drive cars with a hefty toll until they break and have to ride rail or bus.
I’m not even completely against a rail system. True, I dont think we’re quite ready for it. Density issues need to be addressed or where will the riders come from? We lost population last year. Virginia Beach will one day see light rail I think, just not on the desperately fast time table some are pushing. HRT and Norfolk show what happens when you are willing to put up with anything just to get rail “at any cost”.
The fastest route to local mass transit revolves around our military. Too bad, the city’s plan doesn’t. Their plan revolves around people and “density” that is NOT yet here. Instead of working with advantages we do have, the city insists on working with advantages and “types of people” that are not here. Good luck with that.
Chris, right. Unlike some posters, I was purposely attempting to go “over the top” and poke fun at May and his “brave” proposal to raise taxes on somebody else’s district. I am not very familiar with Leesburg, either. I wasn’t making actual proposals there, just a sarcastic response to May.
That toll doesn’t seem too bad to me. But I get off I-64E at Williamsburg. But, for those who don’t want the toll…and some of you, I know, are the same people who don’t want a gas tax increase either …how do you propose to pay for upkeep on the tunnel (much less expansion, which is really needed)? Do you propose to wait until it collapses, thus focusing voter attention?
How about the part where toll money collected from people on the Peninsula can be used to fund the 264 interchange in Virginia Beach?
Funny how no one reads these things.
[...] great. Hampton Roads unemployment is worse than statewide unemployment. So, it ticks me off when rich folks in rich counties slap a $1,000 annual toll on Hampton Roads commuters to pay for road maintenance while their wealthy [...]
[...] great. Hampton Roads unemployment is worse than statewide unemployment. So, it ticks me off when rich folks in rich counties slap a $1,000 annual toll on Hampton Roads commuters to pay for road maintenance while their wealthy [...]
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