“So if anybody wonders whether the stimulus package mattered, whether the recovery package mattered, 7,100 people are going to have jobs with state government…” Tim Kaine (Virginian-Pilot)
That’s the Democrats’ idea of economic stimulus? Government jobs?
The right wants to jeer him. The left wants to censor him. Moderates usually want both. Brian Kirwin is a political consultant and public relations strategist in Virginia Beach with a lightning-rod flair. Brian also serves on the VB Arts & Humanities Commission and frequently appears on Hampton Roads theatrical stages, if only to prove that all actors aren’t liberals. Kirwin’s columns stir up debate and hit the political scene with no punches pulled. 
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Of course it is. Look at how Mayor crack head was able to stay in office for so long. He simply “created” enough Government jobs that everyone in the City either worked for the Government or had a family member who did. The larger Government provides jobs and allows the libs to spend more on Government and social programs. Who is going to complain about that? The Government workers and their family members?
yep – you’ve got it. we should all have state jobs then nobody would ever be out of work
I’m sure the top 2% of wage earners can pay for that…
I thought that was the GOP’s idea of stimulus? After all, nobody grows government – or a deficit faster than a Republican – just ask Reagan or W…
Oh – was this supposed to be an anti-Democratic thing? Ironic being that it’s the GOP that’s the party of big-government, big government spending, big deficits – and now – thanks to W’s work last fall, Socialism!
Though, in your defense the GOP is far more interested in making a few contracts/ friends of the party rich than they are in employing the masses.
Like Pavlov’s dog, Mark continues to bark “George W” whenever anyone points out a fact about a Democrat.
He never addresses the point, mind you. But he does bark on cue.
imagine a world where McCain somehow had become president. under the same circumstances Obama is in what would he do different? probably not much but all the Dems and GOP talking heads would have exchanged notecards.
if Republicans had put their money where their mouth is back in Oct 2008 they probably would have the White House and a bunch of extra seats in Congress. but power corrupts and its pretty hard for the average Joe to tell the difference between the two parties.
Mark,
It is time for the Democrats to stop crowing about President Bush. The only major part of his spending that Obama and the Democrats opposed was his defense spending. This was the wise part of the spending.
It is interesting to see the Democrats defending Pres. Obama with the “Bush did it too” argument. I am glad that the Democrats admit that Pres. Obama is just another Beltway politician.
I think it is important to point out how the 7,100 jobs Tim Kaine was talking about is apparently jobs saved due to the federal stimulus money.
To continue with the quote Brian started with that is contained in the linked to article: “…continue to serve others and not be out on the streets in the midst of the worst job market this country has seen in the last quarter century,”.
Now Brian I know that you are against cuts to the Arts in school systems. Do you realized that if the Arts escape the scalpel, it might only be because of the stimulus money? If you are against using the federal stimulus money to save the Arts, where do you propose coming up with the money to continue to pay for this luxury?
David, how is the status quo “stimulus”?
Imagine how damaging to the economy it would be if those 7,100 had to be laid off.
Then it’s a bailout.
That’s arguing semantics.
Call it what you will but are you or are you not in favor of saving the Arts in schools?
Words mean things, David.
Stimulus means to produce economic growth. Bailout is to stop the bleeding.
If Kaine says the proof of Obama’s stimulus plan’s success is that people aren’t laid off in the future, nothing got stimulated.
And as i wrote in the comments on JR’s arts post, I agree that Arts are very important in education and I also very explicitly said that it doesn’t need the big expense that bureaucrats want it to be.
Private arts organizations are more than willing to partner with schools through grants, saving large overhead and staff costs for the schools to produce the same thing themselves.
OK, then let’s put Arts on the chopping block until one of these willing partners put up the funds to keep them going. The stimulus (bailout) money is not going to be enough to save everything. You have identified an alternate means to pay for these things so lets see if that works.
I think that if jobs are saved this qualifies as stimulus. It stimulates the economy to be more then it would have been without the money.
If you prefer to call it a bailout, OK. The feds are bailing out Virginia’s government or the Virginia taxpayer if you prefer.
I’ll note that the article you linked to points to bipartisan support for the results Tim Kaine was crowing about. The majorities were large enough that even most Republicans voted for it. Tim Kaines budget proposal even called for more budget cuts then what was finally approved by the legislative branch of our state government.
“let’s put Arts on the chopping block”
Go ahead.
I’m sorry that your support for the Arts is so shallow.
I’m sorry you criticize things you write.
I criticize what I write?
Seems to me we have a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
BTW, Pavlov’s dogs salivated.
“Pavlov’s dogs salivated.” So does Mark when he talks about George W.
David, you said “let’s put Arts on the chopping block” and then called someone else’s support for the Arts “shallow”.
When you come to an agreement with yourself, let the rest of us know.
BK -
I’m not barking up the W tree, I’m just sharing a bit of truth with you.
The fact is that the GOP says one thing (fiscal responsibility/ small government/ individual liberties). But then when given power does the opposite. This isn’t an anti-W thing or an anti-Reagan/ Bush I thing, it’s an anti-hypocrisy thing. Fact is, all three grew government and the deficit faster than any Democrat (save FDR and perhaps the current administration) – and two of the three raised taxes.
Moreover, I can almost guarantee that if McCain was in power and the GOP still controlled both houses, there would have been a stimulus package – which would have been nearly identical to Obama’s, and we would still be looking at a huge budget deficit.
About the only thing that would be different is that you, Rush and the other lemmings would be blindly defending it rather than blindly attacking.
Finally, the above is not to say that I agree with everything Obama is doing. I certainly do not. I am uncomfortable with the deficit spending, I am not convinced by his taxation plan, and I’m not sure that the spending priorities in the stimulus were entirely correct. That said, I do believe that he is on the right path, or at least getting closer to it – what I wish is that the GOP would stop simply saying no, and engage with alternative ideas – as they did during the Clinton years – so we can take the best from the GOP and the Democratic ideas to forge a plan that will work for America.
3…2…
Mark,
“Fact is, all three grew government and the deficit faster than any Democrat (save FDR and perhaps the current administration) – and two of the three raised taxes. ”
You forgot about LBJ, Bush’s close cousin
Reagan did have deficits but spending growth slowed down. Deficits and size of government are two different things. But yeah I agree, Reagan the candidate was not Reagan the president.
Brian,
I think the Arts are worth while supporting when guys like you agree to increase your (our) taxes to pay for it. Or at least saying thank you towards the federal stimulus bill.
Absent that I am going to continue to point out how you are one of those guys who wants everything but continues to demand tax cuts to pay for it.
Little David,
During the Reagan years. Tax Cuts actually increased revenue. Arts education is a great thing.
Seriously though, do you think that helping kids through the arts is an immediate stimulate to our economy?
Steven -
During the Bush years tax cuts decreased revenue.
Steven Osborne,
I have not completely come out in favor of defending the Arts. I have described the Arts as being amongst the first things that should hit the cutting floor in a lean state budget.
For a complete defense of the Arts you need to speak to J.R. and Brian Kirwin.
However I do think keeping government employees employed in that which we desire (like fire fighting, law enforcement and educating our kids) adds to the dampening of the current downtrend we presently see.
Mark,
If you cut taxes and also make deep cuts in discretionary spending you can generate revenue.
Little David,
I don’t disagree with you that we should keep teachers, fire fighters, and police officers employed, however this stimulus bill is not the solution to that problem. Eventually this stimulus money that is going to the localities will run out and the states and localities may now find themselves with increased costs due to having to fund these government programs.
The solution to this problem is for states and localities to exercise fiscal disipline. Gov. Palin, Gov. Jindal, and others are doing that even as we speak. We will get through this, however this “medicine” for our sick economy may be worse than the cure.
Steven Osborne,
Well I would imagine Virginia Beach’s Mayor Sessoms is grateful for the money coming to the city, through the state, from the feds. His efforts to balance the city’s budget without laying off fire fighters, police officers and teachers (like he claimed during the election was his goal) just got a little easier.
Now Mayor Sessoms could make voters like you happy and refuse to take the money. But if he takes such a step he is going to make me mighty unhappy.
It’s stupid at this point to send money to California and New York when we’ll all have to repay it.
Brian,
But Virginia got its share too. Did Virginia get less then a fair share? Did California and New York get more then they should have?
Normally California and New York pay far more than their share – while states like South Carolina and Louisiana take far more than their share. There’s a lot of irony there, don’t you think?
How the heck would I know? See, here’s the problem with Democrat solutions. They always create more problems.
The government employee bailout can never be fair. The Democrat health care plans will never be fair. They’ll create more problems even if they solve or delay a few.
Nothing’s fixed now. We’re lucky to be able to build one side street that no one will even notice in Virginia Beach with the vaunted highway money. Whoopee!
Obama and the Democrats just bailed out state budgets and put it all on the nation’s credit card. That’s all that happened here.
Brian,
The problem is that government must solve the problems for the majority or else they will be thrown out of office.
Thank God for America.
Here’s how I see it. The wealthy (the minority) have been getting wealthier while the poor and middle class (the majority) have been becoming poorer. Majority rules according to our constitution.
Don’t you just love America?
David, that’s because the poor are relying on the Democrats to save them, and generation after generation they stay poor.
And I want the wealthy to get wealthier. That’s how jobs are created. The wealthy spends, saves, invests, and companies are created and people are hired.
I never had a poor man give me a job.
Boo Hoo Brian.
You do not realize what America is all about.
Don’t you realize that the poor are still a significant number of the voters?
I think you exposed your private parts with this:
“And I want the wealthy to get wealthier.”
You will genuflect at the altar of the wealthy just as long as the wealthy provide you with a few crumbs. As long as you get your crumbs, to hell with the rest of us.
I apologize to you for not being a socialist.
I know exactly what America is all about. I think doing well is a good thing. I think the more people doing well, the better. You obviously think by attacking people who do well, we’ll get more of them.
Somehow.
Let me know the next time you get a paycheck from someone poor.
In my America, we’re going to provide for the poor.
We are going to provide for those who want to work but can not find the jobs because the wealthy (while still remaining wealthy) found a way to keep exporting the jobs outside our nation.
If they are still going to make a bundle, they should provide the welfare checks. If they are unhappy with this, let them move to Mexico or China or something. Here in America, majority still rules. Here in America, if they still want to live here, we can continue to demand existence in the face of outrageous flaunting of wealth.
If America needs to live with less due to the global economy I think the wealthy need to lead the way. And if the wealthy will not lead then the middle class and the poor will seize the reigns.
Don’t you just love America?
By BK’s definition Teddy Roosevelt would also be a socialist.
We are tired of the class-warfare engaged in by the wealthiest 1% against the rest of America. We, like Teddy, want to see a leveling of the playing field. This is America, we are supposed to be a meritocracy, not a capitalist aristocracy where the rich only get richer – by any means necessary (Wall Street…) – thanks to Republican policies – while the rest of us toil to make their princely lives possible.
All I, and the majority of American’s, want to see is a recognition by the Republicans that maybe, for once, they should put the country first and their pocketbooks second – and stop engaging in the language of class warfare.
Little David,
What is going to happen when this stimulus bill has taken it’s course and inflation hits? Fire fighters, police officers, and teachers buy groceries just like everybody else. The middle class and poor will be hurt by this bill, because the inflation will hit them directly.
The answer is not to “prime the pump.” We have already tried that approach. The answer is to invest in long term, solutions such as modernizing the military. This would increase the number of jobs available and would probably benefit the good people of Virginia Beach. As more income flows into the citizens pockets the lower percentage of taxes still comes to an increased revenue for the city. That’s how you help keep public education and law enforcement employed.
“From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”.
That’s America?
I think 95% of America are getting a little tired of a the GOP beltway spin – that everything President Obama does is socialist, or communist, etc. Do any of you even know what communism is?
You are no different than the idiots on the left who accused Bush of being a Fascist or a Nazi.
Obama’s approval rating has sunk from over 70% to 58%. We’ll see about that “majority” you all keep talking about in a month or two. You might be right…but I bet you’re wrong in a few weeks.
America is still a free market economy. It is still for seeing folks work to earn their success. It is still for equal access, but not necessarily equal outcome.
Seriously, where is the stimulus? Government spending on transportation and infrastructure a year from now? Preserving 7100 government jobs in Virginia this year while not fixing the endemic problems of over-spending in the current budget? Saddling future generations with trillions in debt? Growing the deficit 4 times greater than any other administration?
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