Last week’s post on Lee-Jackson Day has certainly stimulated discussion.
If you have not been compelled to sign our petition or comment on the original post, we’re still interested in your view.
So, what’s your opinion?
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About JR Hoeft: Conservative to the core; liberal with his opinion! J.R. has been involved in politics for over a decade and has worked on several campaigns in Hampton Roads. He has served on the Executive Committee of the Republican Party of Chesapeake and the Central Committee of the Republican Party of Virginia. He is also the director of “Blogs United” in Virginia. E-mail J.R.. Follow J.R. on Twitter. View author profile.
Given the costs, is it worthwhile to explore for oil and natural gas off the coast of Virginia?
Total Voters: 139
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Bill Kirwin, i figure that you must be black . or one thing Virginia wanted to end the importation of slaves , but it was the northern states rejected that idea, I wonder why that was Bill ? Not one slave was brought into America under the Confederate flag / If you want a goverment to be against then you should be against the U.S goverment they were the ones that allowed slaves to be brought into this country . Please remember that only 6 % of the people takin from africa actually came to the U.S.Who sold them into slavery Bill ? what part of the country brought them here Bill ? where did 80% of the africans go Bill ?Why dont you know anything about the truth Bill ? is it because you are a racist idiot Bill ?
Thomas Nichols
Richmond times dispatch . you know nothing about what you speak . I will cancell subscription , I see that you dont even sign who wrote that column , maybe because you are cowards hiding behind polictical correctness . Give me one real reason why Lee’s birthday should not be observed ?Mcdonnell you will never get my vote, or my support in dollars . You are a disgrace to anything that is Virginia . I will offer to help pay a one ticket out of Virginia for your carpet bagging ass
Thomas Nichols
How about we ask black people what they think http://www.geocities.com/tnudc/EDGERTON.jpg . how about Southern Heritage.com … http://www.sipoftexas.org/hkedgerton.php. How many more do I need to post ?
I want to wish Gen. Robert E Lee a Happy Birthday , and always remember that no matter how dark the night , it cant extinguish the light
“Bill Kirwin, i figure that you must be black .”
And people wonder why it’s so easy to laugh at Confederaphiles.
Okay there you go again Brian, using names.
You suffer from your own Confederphobia based on nothing more than historical inadequacies and the idea that because a bunch of racist scum misuse it and another group of people (who wrongly claim to represent the express beliefs of all African-Americans) claim they are offended all because they buy into said wrongful views.
As I said before, you are either on the side of decent Sons and Daughters of the South (ALL SOUTHERNERS, WHITE, BLACK, HISPANIC, JEWISH, CHRISTIAN) who honor the part of our Confederate heritage that mean the best of American civilization….Or you are on the narrow-minded side of those who view it as a racist throwback (and by extension, stand beside the same racist throwbacks in white sheets who share that viewpoint).
Honorable Southerners do not hate anyone. They honor the inclusive brotherly love of Jesus Christ. We who honor Confederate heroes and fly their flag do not do so because we want to return to the days where people were whipped (Incidentally, accusing 4 years of American history on an institution that spanned a couple hundred in North America as a whole is stretching it a bit), or the days where women couldn’t vote, or the days where segregation exists.
All we want is our right to honor our ancestors in our own way. We want society as a whole to recognize that doing so is not a deviant act of “soft bigotry”. We want the flag of our ancestors to fly, not because we want to break away from the United States, but because it represents a distinct American people, a multicultural group of American people who live in our own distinct region (Canada allows French Canadians to have a French symbols on the flag of Quebec. Scotland is allowed to have its own distinct St. Andrews cross and is still a part of Great Britain. Palestine isn’t even a country and its allowed to have a flag separate from Israel to represent its own people).
We want nothing more than that, and to be respected. Treat us with respect and you will get respect back. But keep calling us name and mocking us and I promise you we can give back as good as we get!
There has been a lot of talk here about “what the war was about”…
Let’s check that out (…and place close attention Brian):
“The shrewd men of the North are fully aware…and no doubt have already made a calculation of the profit and loss which will inure to them by a dissolution of the Union. They cannot but foresee a very large dimunition, if not an entire loss, of their Southern trade.”
Cincinnati Daily Enquirer, 28 December 1860
*
“…in the event of a permanent dissolution of the Union….Our commerce, whether inland or international, will suffer an almost total eclipse….The adoption by the Southern Republic of a system of free trade, or a low rate of tariff duties, will alone suffice to consummate these ends. Upon equal terms it will be difficult if not impossible to compete with the labor of Europe in the Southern market. It is only by the very large percentage in our favor furnished by our tariff, that we so far have competed successfully. When that advantage is removed, and we are left to compete on equal terms, it requires no sagacity to perceive that we shall be driven from the Southern markets with our manufactures; and our commercial and transporting interest dependent on that trade will perish also.
These things in themselves will deal a terrible blow to our prosperity; but they furnish not even one-half of the difficulties and disasters which await us. By the system of free trade, the Confederate States not only cut off our Southern trade and market, but they utterly derange our business relations at our own doors and with foreign nations…”
The Racine Democrat, 3 April 1861
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“The Union of the States, we fear, is permanently severed. The separation is peaceable in form, but hostile in fact. The Confederate States have adopted a nominal tariff, preparatory no doubt, to the speedy establishment of free trade. This policy is designed to overthrow the commercial and manufacturing interests of the North, and it will prove a heavy and fatal blow to their prosperity and their existence.”
Cedar Valley Times (Cedar Rapids, Iowa), 4 April 1861
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“It is at this juncture of things that the ‘money power’ of the North interposes…not to propose compromise of any kind, but casting its weight in the scales on the side of the ‘anti-slavery’ Government at Washington, it hopes to crush the South into submission, and compelling it to resume its former relations with the North, to thus restore the Southern trade to this city.”
New York Day Book, 22 May 1861
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“The men of Pennsylvania and Massachusetts cared as a rule very little about the ‘domestic institutions’ of the South until this war broke out. The merchants of New York were bitter partisans of slavery. But the ironmasters of Pennsylvania and the manufacturers of New England have taxed the South for their benefit so long that they cannot bear the thought of losing the power of doing so for the future. The brokers of the Empire City are furious at the prospect of seeing their lucrative trade diverted to Charleston or New Orleans, and carried on with English capital. The lust of money has had ten times more to do with the sudden patriotism of the North than their love of liberty.”
London Morning Herald, 1861
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“To keep this Northern division of the continent as the field for millions of the white race to claim their natural birthright in, and exercise their energies and their talents for their own advantage and the general prosperity, it is essential that but one Government shall exercise authority from the Gulf of Mexico to Canada, and from the Atlantic to the Pacific. What would this country be, broken up into pieces, and divided into different confederacies, with rival interests, and rival institutions? How could the enterprise and industry of the free North develope itself with another and rival government, based on principles so entirely opposite to free labor, limiting its expansion southwardly, and holding three-fourths of the line of the sea coast of the country in its own possession?….
To be cut off at one blow from this privilege, and to be deprived of the freedom of the coasting trade, would be ruinous to our commercial interests, and crippling to every other pursuit on which our prosperity is founded.”
Philadelphia Public Ledger, 7 June 1861
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“…one of the principal reasons why the North is so resolved upon the continued vigorous prosecution of the war, is that her people now know by experience the inestimable value to them of the Southern trade….The mercantile marts of New England and the Middle States will be hopelessly ruined. Nothing can possibly save them except the recovery of that magnificent trade….the people of the North think their only chance of getting back Southern trade–or making our country evermore tributary to their growth and aggrandizement, is to conquer us, hold us as subject provinces, and compel us to resume the former channels of mercantile communication. They freely acknowledge that the war injures them terribly…”
New Orleans Bee, 21 September 1861
…Yes, yes, I know what the war was about…
http://www.sonofthesouth.net/leefoundation/lees%20slave.htm
So is this whom we should praise http://targetfreedom.typepad.com/targetfreedom/2009/01/martin-luther-king-.html
Well, I see there is no shortage of government-educated, pc-minded, historically-challenged folks like Brian around.
Yes, Brian, the South seceded from the Union, and for essentially the same reasons that the Colonists seceded from Britain: they sought independence from an oppressive government, and a tyrannical dictator.
I suppose you would consider Washington, Jefferson, and those who advocated breaking from British domination “traitors”?
Your opinion is common, but quite the opposite of truth.
Wow…another “brave” anonymous commenter attacking me. How’s your hood?
All private school here, dimwit.
I never knew that we fought a revolution against England so we could own slaves. I learn SO much!
Hey never too late to learn something new Brian.
Brian-
Usually disagree with you. But you’ve done an excellent job defending your position. Seriously, it’s 10 against 1 and you’ve held your own. I shall never underestimate your debating skills.
I’ve got to stop before my liberal chip blows up.
Actually, Brian, There were “slaves” who fought against England, too. Funny how that happens when people become family regardless fo their “legal” status.
Arlen, there were bald men who fought against England. Does that mean that we fought a Revolution for baldness rights?
I was born and raised in Virginia. I now live in Tennessee. But, my family and entire past is in Virginia. Lee-Jackson day is one of the last things in the south that has survived the onslaught to remove any memory of the “old south”. Does it honestly hurt having a few flags walked down through Richmond and Lexington once a year? Does it hurt having a few speaches and dinners throughout the state once a year? I am sure the state employees like the day off.
There are VERY few things left in our world that you can grab onto and hold that are solid…and family history and heritage are a couple of them.
Sticking a few little battle flags on fallen family soldier from the Civil War on graves, and a small parade in a few towns give a select group of people a day of getting together to chat and talk history….maybe we need a little more of it. Yes, you cannot go forward until you look back.
It usually all comes back to slavery. A couple VERY simple things to say. Slavery was around WAYYYYYY before the Civil War, Lee, Jackson, and the Battle Flag. If anyone wants to throw slavery into the mix, go after the U.S. Flag, it was flying over all the state capitols when slavery was in force. Also…a lot of times, rival tribes actually captured and sold their own country men and women (Africans), to slave traders, so if anyone wants to point fingers or think about who is in fault, might try looking at the source. Yes, sloavery was wrong, no man should be property of another, but it happened, the war was won, slavery was abolished. End of story. Lee-Jackson day is for remembering Virginia soldiers and home state generals that fought for what they believed in…”DEFENDING THEIR STATE AGAINST AN AGRESSOR”…mainly the US Goverment that sent troups into Virginia to attack the more southern cotton states.
Leave the Lee-Jackson day alone…
Wow…Lee-Jackson Day is winning the poll by an 89 to 9 margin.
The Petition has been up for several days with only 80 signatures (and some of those appear to be rather sarcastic in tone- “Scal A. Wag”).
Y’all ready to throw in the towel?
More on “what the war was about”-
“The surest way to secure peace, is to show your ability to maintain your rights. The principles and position of the present administration of the United States—the republican party—present some puzzling questions. While it is a fixed principle with them never to allow the increase of a foot of slave territory, they seem to be equally determined not to part with an inch ‘of the accursed soil.’ Notwithstanding their clamor against the institution, they seemed to be equally opposed to getting more, or letting go what they have got. They were ready to fight on the accession of Texas, and are equally ready to fight now on her secession. Why is this? How can this strange paradox be accounted for? There seems to be but one rational solution—and that is, notwithstanding their professions of humanity, they are disinclined to give up the benefits they derive from slave labor. Their philanthropy yields to their interest.The idea of enforcing the laws, has but one object, and that is a collection of the taxes, raised by slave labor to swell the fund necessary to meet their heavy appropriations. The spoils is what they are after—though they come from the labor of the slave…”
Alexander Stephens, 21 March 1861
“I have not stated the wealth of the North, but it is not my purpose to detract from it. They were a people of wealth. Most of it, however, came from their connection and trade with us. They were an ingenious and manufacturing people. We are an agricultural people. Their interests and ours were blended together. Our prosperity enabled them to become prosperous, and their States grew up by our trade and commerce. Most of their wealth, when you come to estimate it, was nothing but profits derived from our trade. Cut off that trade….Close up the harbor; cut off manufactures. What does it consist in? Bricks and mortar–nothing else….It will disappear: for the bricks and mortar will be worth no more, unless there are tenants and the profits derived from labor, than the bricks and mortar in the arid plains of Babylon.
Sixty-one millions of New-England capital consisted alone in cotton manufactures and cotton spindles. These factories look to us for our raw materials. This capital is now literally paralyzed; it is dead capital; and will be as long as this war lasts….
The great difference between the North and the South to carry on the war –and this I say to you in prospect of a long war, for I wish our people to see the full magnitude and to feel the full responsibility which rests upon us in it, and to see our responsibility to meet it– is this: The North sold us some two hundred and fifty millions annually. This was their riches; hence came their wealth; hence grew their cities. Their wealth was but the accumulation deposited from our commerce, just as the delta of the Nile was enriched by the the deposit of rich alluvial soil brought from the mountains and deposited in it. The riches, money and power of the North came in the same way. Our cotton was the source of it…”
Alexander Stephens, 11 July 1861
Thanks to folks like you, BR, we’re in this for the long haul. Thanks for motivating us!
Just to show you how completely out of touch this Kirwin individual (and his ilk) is with every day Americans, not only am I completely opposed to ending Lee-Jackson Day, but I voted for Barack Obama!
Liberal…..
It amazes me what people find to cry about .There was just a talk on TV about no more silent time in public schools (its not good enough for these morons that the kids cant have a bible in school, mention GODS name or pray because it might offend somebody) Now they want to do away with Lee Jackson Day (or change the name of the day to disrespect these two great men of GOD and my heritage) Robert E Lee graduated from West point at the top of his class. He was ask to lead the Union Army against the South. But He came home (not to fight for slavery) put to defend His Mother State VA. Both of these men were well respected by the Northern Generals for their leadership and Godly character. YOU need a true .history lesson. Leave our heritage alone.