Are we still Americans?
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I don’t mean to oversimplify, but we have a huge government bureaucracy, we’re engaged in entangling alliances, our taxes cover nearly a half year of an individual’s labor in order to pay them, we participate in foreign adventurism, religion is anathema, our conversations are monitored, most of our leaders, despite unethical behavior, remain in office, we can’t get fuel from our own lands, and those that do try to offer solutions to our most pressing problems usually get voted out of office for “compromising.”
Can someone please tell me what the heck is going on? Is this really what the Founders envisioned?
Certainly not. But I think Romans of the Republic, towards its latter years, would recognize the symptoms.
One point of optimism: today in New York, new governor, David Paterson, said that today was a historic occasion; not because he is the first black governor, but because the rule of law prevailed and no individual is above the law.
Well, there’s still hope.
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.”
Alexis de Tocqueville
And as far as your point of optimism, the new Governor of New York announced today that he’s rather competitive with the former governor when it comes to cheating on a spouse…but at least he didn’t pay for it, I guess.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,338769,00.html
JR -
Excellent post, one of your best. I appreciated your comparison to the decline and end of the Roman Republic. I share your concerns, particularly as I consider the nature of the fall and of Cicero’s pointed attacks on Cesear and Anthony.
The problem is that, other than us Libertarians, Americans no longer want to be grownups and bear grownup responsibilities. They want to be the government’s children.
The only difference is that the Democrats want permissive parents who will let them do anything they want and then protect them from the consequences.
The Republicans want a strict governess who will prevent them from doing anything that will have unfavorable consequences, and maybe give them a little spanking from time to time, especially if the governess is attractive.
“Can someone please tell me what the heck is going on? Is this really what the Founders envisioned?”
J.R.: you are not oversimplifying things. We the People are allowing our federal government to get further and further from the Constitution and what the Founding Fathers envisioned.
Shamefully, the Republican Party is just as culpable as the Democrats. The Congress has abdicated its responsibiity in following the rule of law that is the Consitution. Presidential powers have been permitted to run rampant without any checks from the Judiciary or the Legislature.
If you have not yet read
“A Foreign Policy of Freedom: Peace, Commerce, and Honest Friendship” by Ron Paul, I highly suggest you do so.
http://www.amazon.com/Foreign-Policy-Freedom-Commerce-Friendship/dp/0912453001/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205852097&sr=8-1
It is a most prescient writing of the where, why, and how “We the People” are failing at sustaining our Constituional Republic in the fashion that our Founding Fathers had envisioned. We have failed to hold our Federal Government accountable for its performance.
I respectfully urge any Republicans who share your concerns to get their hands on a copy of this book ASAP and read it front to back.
Once we understand and recognize the roots of the problems facing our government, we can begin the task of joining together to fix it.
Again, you are not oversimplifying things. There is an elegantly simple little book titled “Obvious Adams” written by Robert Updergraff in the 1930’s. It is about a man who finds that implementing the obvious (and often times most simple) solution to problems yields the best results.
It seems to me that the obvious solution to our country’s problems of an out of control Federal government is to get back to the U.S. Constitution. If we have elected leaders who do not uphold their oath to support and lead by the Constituion, then it is up to We the People to remove the from office. It is as simple and as obvious as that.
Wow….it took all the way to comment #4 for a Ron Paul plug!
Re: Brian Kirwin Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 11:41 am
Wow….it took all the way to comment #4 for a Ron Paul plug!
It is not a plug for Ron Paul, as much as it is for the Constitution and the obvious distancing between it and our federal government’s approach to running our country.
The truth of the notion remains with or without Ron Paul.
Pulled Ron Paul’s name out of a hat, huh?
What is interesting about this debate is that it isn’t far from the struggle between Adams and Jefferson’s two visions for our nation.
Brian Kirwin Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 6:55 pm
Pulled Ron Paul’s name out of a hat, huh?
Please forgive me Brian, but I am missing the point of your posts. Can you help me understand what it is that you are trying to communicate? Is it sarcasm? Are you being dismissive? Again, I aplogize, but I am failing to comprehend your point. Perhaps you can help me see what it is your are trying to convey.
Brian, maybe to drive toward an answer of J.R.’s original question of “Are we still Americans?”, I can ask you some questions to elicit your thoughts.
Is it your opinion that Congress and the President(s) have done a good job of governing the U.S. via the rules laid forth within the Constitution over the last 70 years?
What are your thoughts related to the notion that Congress and the President(s) have strayed from the guiding principles of the Constitution?
To what can you attribute the widespread distancing between the U.S. people and their government?
What are the reasons from your perspective as to why we have a struggling national economy, a failing U.S. dollar, and national public debt that is crippling future generations of American citizens?
To what reasons do you attribute acts of terrorism against the United States and its citizens?
Brian, do you see our country as being able to sustain for future generations, as a truly free and capitalistic nation that is a respected and influential leader around the world with a government that operates in similar fashion to how ours has over the last 70 years?
If you can, as an exercise in evaluating liberty, can you please rate the degree to which the U.S. government has influence on the lives of the American people for the periods of time that is the late 19th century, the mid 20th century, and the early 21st century? Feel free to use qualitative measures of a quantitative method cannot be derived.
What are your thoughts in general on a nation that has significant government influence on the everyday lives of the people to which it represents? What degree of “freeness” exists for such a nation’s people?
I have asked these questions of you so I can learn from you, what the reasons are for what J.R. asked: Are we still Americans?
Brian Kirwin: Can you please tell me what the heck is going on? Is this really what the Founders envisioned?
Thanks in advance for your best offering of a well intentioned and thoughtful explanation.
I hate to answer R. Lehmen’s questions for Brian but oh what the heck I can’t help myself so I will anyway. We have the government we voted or didn’t vote for. It’s called a democracy. Some would say we have the government we deserve.
Robert, like most in the Ron Paul camp, you have lots of questions but no answers. So, I’m happy to give you some.
Can you help me understand what it is that you are trying to communicate?
Yes.
Is it sarcasm?
No.
Are you being dismissive?
No.
Is it your opinion that Congress and the President(s) have done a good job of governing the U.S. via the rules laid forth within the Constitution over the last 70 years?
If you include the amendments that have been added to the Constitution along the way, like it or not, they’ve done ok matching both those and the rulings from the Supreme Court.
What are your thoughts related to the notion that Congress and the President(s) have strayed from the guiding principles of the Constitution?
Let’s see….women can vote. Slavery is illegal. I guess we have strayed a bit from your ideal.
To what can you attribute the widespread distancing between the U.S. people and their government?
Being that only a third of Americans wanted independence from Great Britain in the first place, methinks this distancing between Americans and government has been around a bit.
What are the reasons from your perspective as to why we have a struggling national economy, a failing U.S. dollar, and national public debt that is crippling future generations of American citizens?
Too many libertarians are fighting Republicans instead of fighting Democrats.
To what reasons do you attribute acts of terrorism against the United States and its citizens?
I don’t care what their reasons are.
Brian, do you see our country as being able to sustain for future generations, as a truly free and capitalistic nation that is a respected and influential leader around the world with a government that operates in similar fashion to how ours has over the last 70 years?
I don’t care if other countries respect us. Europe hated Ronald Reagan for standing up the the Soviet Union. By your question, you would’ve told Ronnie to back down.
If you can, as an exercise in evaluating liberty, can you please rate the degree to which the U.S. government has influence on the lives of the American people for the periods of time that is the late 19th century, the mid 20th century, and the early 21st century? Feel free to use qualitative measures of a quantitative method cannot be derived.
If I had as much time on my hands as Ron Paul supporters do, I’d write you a multi-chapter treatise on governmental influences throughout the last 150 years. Meanwhile, maybe you can write me a treatise on how Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan ran for President so many times and lost so badly each time.
What are your thoughts in general on a nation that has significant government influence on the everyday lives of the people to which it represents?
France is a nice place to visit.
What degree of “freeness” exists for such a nation’s people?
Freedom isn’t a lack of laws, Robert.
Brian Kirwin: Can you please tell me what the heck is going on?
I’m no therapist.
Is this really what the Founders envisioned?
I think the Founders would be amazed we got this far.
Brian, you put a smile on my face with your replies. Thanks. By the way, Happy Easter to you and yours.
Please don’t take this the wrong way Brian, but you are coming across a little smug and with a hint of haughtiness. I am not sure why. I came here to see what the Republican Party is all about. If this is the tone of your posts to guests who love their country and subscribe to principles of the Republican Party, I have to wonder if you are interested in welcoming people to the party or not.
J.R. asked a question “Are We Still Americans”?
Has that been answered yet? Your replies to my initial post and my subsequent reply/question fall short of shining any new light on the topic.
Re: Amendments, obviously, they (founders) saw a need for them with the writing of Article V.
As far as slavery goes, your implication that supporting the Constitution means endorsing slavery borders on sophomoric thinking. The founders recognized the abomination that slavery was, but they could not risk a fractured Union so early on, particularly with the debt owed for the Revolutionary War. Rather than risk losing the new found unity, with much forethought, they tabled the issue until after 1808. They knew slavery had to be eliminated as it was against everything they believed in. The immediate post Revolutionary War was too soon to abolish it, as the Deep Southern states made it a requirement of their playing ball.
I can’t respond to your implication that supporting the Constitution means I do not support a woman’s right to vote. I am not sure the founders would cringe at all when it comes to the 19th amendment as much as they would be incited to another revolution (and ringing of necks) if they were here to see the ushering in of the 16th amendment.
Libertarians fighting with Republicans are the causes of our current American economic climate? That’s just weak. I am not Libertarian, though if you represent what it means to be a Republican, maybe Libertarian is the way to go.
Brian, you don’t care why we are being targeted by terrorists? How can we strategize and find the best solution to stopping the terrorism if we don’t methodically and rationally ask the question of what is their real problem with us? I mean why would a culture (Islamic Fundamentalists) that is widely viewed as being stuck in the Stone Age develop a beef with the USA? You don’t think our getting an answer to that question has a basis for developing a policy that will actually get them to stop? You are not willing to use your brain to look at the history of our foreign policy over the last 70 years and try to apply an ability to think in time? You have heard of the old adage, “those who fail to recognize history are doomed to repeat it” haven’t you? If we go with your plan of “who cares?” I guess another billion plus dollar federal agency, the Patriot Act, and OIF will make the terrorists stop, right? And just how long and at what cost should we follow the current plan of action? And just how will we define victory?
As far as your reply about colonists being on board with the independence movement, again - you fall way short of the point in the attempt to dismiss the reality that Americans in 2008 are not happy with their government’s performance. Most scholars would likely agree with the statement that early 1800’s Americans immediately following the Revolutionary War were freer with less daily government influence in their lives than Americans of 2008 (just as the founders had intended and had hoped to see built to last).
You are discounting the need for being respected in the worldview as a country. I guess you prefer we be viewed as some classless, uncivilized animals. During the Cold War, and in Reagan’s day, Communism was a greater threat to Europe than any American ICBM’s that were there and aimed at the USSR. So no, I would not have second guessed President Reagan on his arms race with the Soviets, and I am sure Europeans are appreciative of our willingness to stand for freedom in that part of the world. You are falling short on good answers yet again, Brian. We can’t be all things to all nations. The Pax Americana cannot co-exist with the nation founded and envisioned by Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Madison, Adams, Henry, Paine, et. al. Empiricism failed the Romans and the UK and it will doom America.
Your last paragraph about the failed bid of Ron Paul and Buchanan is just sniping and adds nothing of value to arriving at an answer to the J.R.’s question.
Freedom isn’t a lack of laws? What does that mean? I am not for lawlessness. I am for a government that does not interfere unnecessarily in the lives of the people it serves and does not bleed its people and redistribute their wealth, thereby promoting a welfare state. Lack of freedom is evident when the Republican Party passes Medicare Part D. Lack of freedom is all the government spending that is taking place with no money to back it up. Lack of freedom is bailing out privately owned banks and offering relief to borrowers of sub-prime mortgages. Where is the restraint from the Republican Party and its holders of public office? Where are the principled Republicans who recite the Republican Creed before each committee meeting? Lack of freedom is America turning its back on the Constitutional form of government that our Founders painstakingly crafted.
In closing, Brian, I am greatly disappointed with your replies. I expected much better from you. If people like you (should this post you wrote above be at all indicative of your typical behavior and mindset) are what the Republican Party is all about, then I fear greatly for the future of the Republican Party and any chance that Democratic socialist agendas can be defeated.
“you are coming across a little smug and with a hint of haughtiness.”
eventually I may care
“The founders recognized the abomination that slavery was”
Apparently not enough of them
“Brian, you don’t care why we are being targeted by terrorists? How can we strategize and find the best solution to stopping the terrorism if we don’t methodically and rationally ask the question of what is their real problem with us?”
Is that your philosophy in dealing with all murderers? Is that your policy for public safety in general? If we find out why killers kill, we can understand them and change ourselves so that they won’t want to kill us.
So, no. I don’t care what it is about us that terrorists don’t like, because I’m not about to change America and beg terrorists to approve.
Most scholars would likely agree with the statement that early 1800’s Americans immediately following the Revolutionary War were freer with less daily government influence in their lives than Americans of 2008
I’m sure people had less government in their lives in 1800. So you and Ron Paul can start a movement to end social security, medicare, public schools, food inspection, clean water standards, child labor laws, etc. Sounds like a real vote getter!
“You are discounting the need for being respected in the worldview as a country. I guess you prefer we be viewed as some classless, uncivilized animals.”
There’s this giant abyss in between your two choices of extremes, but no. I’m not staying up late at night worrying what Bulgaria thinks of us.
“I am sure Europeans are appreciative of our willingness to stand for freedom in that part of the world.”
And I am sure you’re wrong, because they were protesting Reagan in the streets.
“In closing, Brian, I am greatly disappointed with your replies.”
Alas, another one of life’s unending tragedies.
Brian, I am left speechless with the replies you have made in this blog post. If all Republicans approach problem solving in the fashion that you have engaged this topic here, then I wonder if you and your ilk and the Political Consulting firm you work for are part of the current problem befalling Republican Politics in VA.
I could be wrong, but our exchange here has allowed me to form a bad impression of you. From your replies, I take it that you won’t lose any sleep over that, but then, that could be one of your problems. Again, I wish a Happy Easter to you and yours.
Robert, for someone speechless, you sure type a lot.
You asked questions - I gave answers. I don’t think the answer to today’s problems is a headlong rush to the 1800s.
Sorry you disagree.
Hey, Brian - get out of politics and don’t ever run for anything. Please.
….another Paul guy with no sense of humor
Brian, it’s OK that we disagree - it’s the boorish behavior that comes across as unpalatable and uninviting. We simply disagree on the role that the Constitution should play in today’s U.S. Government. You see it as a living and breathing document. I don’t. Where in the middle can two Republicans meet on this issue?
Actually, no, Robert. I don’t see it as a living and breathing document. But I recognize that before I came along, its been significantly amended since the time period you romanticize.
There are a whole list of things government does that the founders would likely oppose. And anyone who runs on ending those things would be defeated by a margin you wouldn’t believe. That’s not the way I want it. That’s just the way it is.
Preoccupation with winning and losing the short term battles only serves toward furthering and strengthening the perversion of our Constitutioanl Republic more and more towards a democracy.
That perversion when allowed to continue and fester, insidiously erodes the very type of government that is professed to be the aim of the Republican Party. The principles of individual’s rights, justice, personal responsibility, and virtue are the foundations of our intended government and therefore hold a higher sanction than the “will of the people” that motivates today’s politicos who want to win now at all costs.
A well-thought out plan by the Republican Party (or those who are truly freedom loving people in the U.S.) toward gradually weaning America from the social/welfare policies of the 20th century will get us back on track to securing for our nation a position of sustainability and prosperity for future American generations.
My views of where our U.S. government should be headed are not based on romantacism but rather a sense of survivalism to try and make a last ditch effort to preserve the freedoms that have been unknowingly bastardized by well-intentioned, yet ignorant (or quite possibly unprincipled) elected government leaders.